Focusrite 8i6 line inputs

[mjbphotos]

Wasn't sure what area of the forum to put this, but figured more people look at this section!

It's been discussed before that the rear line inputs on Focusrite Scarlet series are very low volume. One of the reason I chose the 8i6 was the extra inputs, so I could keep my keyboard plugged in all the time. With my old keyboard, I had to turn its master volume up all the way to get a half-decent signal. My new keyboard's line outputs are a bit weaker, even turned up all the way, the hardest hits on the keyboard barely peak at -18dB. Now I know I can record them at that level, but the problem is hearing the keyboard part when I've got other tracks playing! I have to turn the other tracks way way down, then turn the monitors (or headphones) way up.
Any simple solutions? These are 1/4" inputs (and outputs from the keyboard), so a Cloudlifter won't work, as it would require XLR adapters each side. Of course, I could plug the keyboard lines into the front inputs on the 8i6, but that defeats the whole purpose of the extra inputs!

 

[Mr. ROUSH]

Wasn't sure what area of the forum to put this, but figured more people look at this section!

It's been discussed before that the rear line inputs on Focusrite Scarlet series are very low volume. One of the reason I chose the 8i6 was the extra inputs, so I could keep my keyboard plugged in all the time. With my old keyboard, I had to turn its master volume up all the way to get a half-decent signal. My new keyboard's line outputs are a bit weaker, even turned up all the way, the hardest hits on the keyboard barely peak at -18dB. Now I know I can record them at that level, but the problem is hearing the keyboard part when I've got other tracks playing! I have to turn the other tracks way way down, then turn the monitors (or headphones) way up.
Any simple solutions? These are 1/4" inputs (and outputs from the keyboard), so a Cloudlifter won't work, as it would require XLR adapters each side. Of course, I could plug the keyboard lines into the front inputs on the 8i6, but that defeats the whole purpose of the extra inputs!

I think the best option would be a preamp with 1/4” inputs going in or a mixer. This seems to be a common complaint with Focusrite interfaces. The inputs on back are line level. Another option would be to turn it up in your DAW with a gain plug or one of the volume faders in the chain.

 

[mjbphotos]

I think the best option would be a preamp with 1/4” inputs going in or a mixer. This seems to be a common complaint with Focusrite interfaces. The inputs on back are line level. Another option would be to turn it up in your DAW with a gain plug or one of the volume faders in the chain.

All the volume controls in the chain are pegged already. Looking for a preamp recommendation. Afraid that using a mixer and pushing all its volume controls up will result in undesired change of sound - got to be stereo too.

 

[rob aylestone]

My Presonus has a similar issue on the ¼" inputs they need a higher level than my synths have - all I have done is set cubase up to have those inputs on their own input faders (two in my case) and I have a compressor plugged in as an insert with no compression, but using the makeup gain. Cubase does allow you to add gain to the inputs in a different way - but I quite like this way of doing it in my workflow.

 

[mjbphotos]

I will definitely look at doing that - right now!
This is the only gear I've found that will do it: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MLLS--morley-mlls-2-channel-line-level-shifter - I am assuming that changing the signal from -10 to +4 would do the trick.

 

[Mr. ROUSH]

All the volume controls in the chain are pegged already. Looking for a preamp recommendation. Afraid that using a mixer and pushing all its volume controls up will result in undesired change of sound - got to be stereo too.

Interesting. In the interim, I would add an extra gain plug-in as an insert just to reach an audible level while recording. A mixer or preamp either one may color your sound in a good or a bad way. I would shoot for something either transparent, or something that adds a color you know you like that will fit generally with your synth recordings. The ISA 220 by Focusrite comes to mind as a good transparent option if you can find a used one that’s reasonably priced. Lots of great budget friendly options, too. Best of luck to you!

 

[mjbphotos]

So I added a compressor with just the makeup gain on it, that worked to make it hearable while tracking (still had to turn the keyboard volume up a bit). But I will still need to 'normalize' the track (in Reaper) and turn off the compressor, because the wave form on the track is so small, making it impossible to see to automate volume, etc.

I would like to believe that the Morley 'line level shifter' (liked above) would not color the sound - I don't want that, as it is mostly piano and organ that I use the keyboard for.

 

[Mr. ROUSH]

So I added a compressor with just the makeup gain on it, that worked to make it hearable while tracking (still had to turn the keyboard volume up a bit). But I will still need to 'normalize' the track (in Reaper) and turn off the compressor, because the wave form on the track is so small, making it impossible to see to automate volume, etc.

I would like to believe that the Morley 'line level shifter' (liked above) would not color the sound - I don't want that, as it is mostly piano and organ that I use the keyboard for.

The line level shifter is a great solution. It will convert your -10dbv outputs to +4dbu. That will give you +11db on the way in. You’d be peaking around -6db max when recording. You definitely want to resolve the issue on the front end to get a solid signal and a reasonable waveform.

 

[mjbphotos]

I just unplugged my mics from the front #1 and 2 inputs and plugged in the keyboard lines today to track a piano part. Maybe I will try and get Focusrite to split the cost of the line level shifter with me!

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I have a 6i6 first generation. I plan to use it to transfer 4-track tapes from a Tascam 424, but I already know the two line inputs are going to be low because they're probably +4 dBu and the Tascam line outputs are -10 dBV. But I have a small Mackie mixer with a couple of mic/line inputs, which should make those 6i6 line inputs function more or less like its own front panel mic/line inputs.

Electronic instruments tend to put out a signal that's on the order of consumer line level (-10 dBV), with some variation between devices.

 

[ecc83]

I have read of this problem before and it really is not the fault of the AIs, more that of kbds having rather low outputs, in fact if you look at their "specifications" they often do not even give a figure for it!

The use of a small mixer has been mentioned but another solution is a 'mic' transformer. These (I shall find one soonest) give around 15-20dB of 'free' gain when going from a low impedance output to a reasonably high one. They might make a bit of a tonal difference to the sound but they are cheap to try at around $15ish. You will also need a TS jack to male XLR3 cable.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Soundlab-G132C-Microphone-Matching-Transformer/dp/B000KH7RQ8 OK so $20!

Dave.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

The price of two of those transformers gets you almost halfway to a 402VLZ4. The special cables will push that well over the halfway mark. Transformers might do the job, but the mixer will give clean, adjustable gain plus tone control. I got my 402VLZ3 for $60, barely used.

 

[ecc83]

The price of two of those transformers gets you almost halfway to a 402VLZ4. The special cables will push that well over the halfway mark. Transformers might do the job, but the mixer will give clean, adjustable gain plus tone control. I got my 402VLZ3 for $60, barely used.

Fair comment BSG but a mixer is quite a chunk of kit to find space for and power. The transformers are passive and 'fit and forget. OP might also have/be able to make the necessary cables.

Dave.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

The space it takes isn't nothing, but it's only 19x15 cm., and the power supply is a line lump style, so to doesn't occupy more than one outlet. I can see the attraction of a passive solution, but having actual gain control makes the mixer option my preference.

 

[mjbphotos]

If I can find an inexpensive stereo mixer, I will go that route.

 

[ecc83]

If I can find an inexpensive stereo mixer, I will go that route.

Behringer XENYX 802 8 Input 2 Bus Mixer : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ

Buy Behringer XENYX 802 8 Input 2 Bus Mixer. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I have had one of those running in a bedroom 24/7 for over 4 years amping a coupe of mics in my garden. The 4 mic input 1002 can also be found very cheaply. Yes, I know you just need line inputs but extra mic amps are never out the way?

Dave

 

[Tacsat117]

I only use MIDI controllers and don’t know much about keyboards, so this may be a useless suggestion….. Does your key board speak MIDI over usb (or even 13 pin)? I have no volume problems over usb and u may have suitable instrument in your DAW. Plug and play!!

 

[mjbphotos]

I only use MIDI controllers and don’t know much about keyboards, so this may be a useless suggestion….. Does your key board speak MIDI over usb (or even 13 pin)? I have no volume problems over usb and u may have suitable instrument in your DAW. Plug and play!!

yes, I have MIDI for my virtual instruments. but I want to record the keyboard's sounds.

 

[mjbphotos]

Behringer XENYX 802 8 Input 2 Bus Mixer : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ

Buy Behringer XENYX 802 8 Input 2 Bus Mixer. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I have had one of those running in a bedroom 24/7 for over 4 years amping a coupe of mics in my garden. The 4 mic input 1002 can also be found very cheaply. Yes, I know you just need line inputs but extra mic amps are never out the way?

Dave

I sold a 'back up' Behr mixer I had (think it was a 1202) to a friend who has only used a couple of times, maybe I can get that back. A 502 is only $40 (new), but I wonder how 'clean' the signal will really be with it. I never used the 1202, bought it used, checked to make sure everything worked, but then it sat in a box until I sold it.
You know what I hate about cheap mixers - no sliders, just rotary volume controls on the channels!

 

[ecc83]

Mike, the signal on those mixers will only be going through 3 or 4 op amps and mixers usually have plenty of headroom, generally +22dBu. The 8i6 I would guess hit 0dBFS at around +12-+16dBu so there will be minimal distortion. My 802 has very low noise, the noise floor of the garden mics is dictated by 'air noise' even on a calm day. I also have a 1002 and that is equally clean.

Faders are nice if you want to 'play' them but I prefer set and forget knobs for fixed duty? Faders are easily bumped. Aso, cheap mixers will only have cheap faders and they are not that reliable IMX.

Dave.