First Crack At Recording Drums

[nk126]

This is my first try at recording drums by themselves (i.e. not a room mic capturing the whole band) -- any opinions & advice appreciated: good, bad, or ugly.

The kit is two rack toms, hanging floor tom, kick, main snare, and side snare, and a bunch of cymbals. Mic'ed with two overheads, kick mic, and mics on both snares -- run through the studio's mixing board and then into my Mac via four-track interface. So I had the two overheads with the side snare mixed into two stereo channels, the kick on channel three, and main snare on channel four.

My totally uninformed opinion: I'd like to hear a more depth to the toms, and the cymbals sound a little bright or harsh or something (whatever the right word is). But given that I tried to remember everything I'd read onilne about mic placement, and also that once I got setup and behind the kit, it was hard to actually go to the board to tweak individual gains ... I dunno, I'm not totally underwhelmed, anyway

One track is just drums. The other is drums playing along with a Reason file. Everything was mixed in Ableton Live.

nk

 

[treymonfauntre]

i really like how the cymbals sound actually, lots of ping from the stick. the main snare sounds real dull though. i'm not sure if EQing will help, sounds more like a tuning kind of thing.

 

[nk126]

i really like how the cymbals sound actually, lots of ping from the stick. the main snare sounds real dull though. i'm not sure if EQing will help, sounds more like a tuning kind of thing.

Yeah, actually I think it's less the sound of the cymbals than that the toms sound thin and weak and bumping the overhead channels up makes the cymbals too loud.

The main snare is a snare I just got -- an old slingerland solid shell that I was itchy to try*out. Probably not the best idea to try recording for the first time with a drum I'm trying for the first time, but hey ... I think the head combo on it was a little too heavy, and the tuning wasn't great, yeah. Sounded a little thuddy, for sure ..

What can I do to get a bigger tom sound?

 

[SonicClang]

Maybe it's my speakers, but I can't hear the kick at all. It's not bad for a first crack though. I won't make any suggestions because I'm at work right now not listening on my good monitors.

 

[tourettes5139]

Not bad at all! The drumming sounds solid, and that is the first step in getting good drum sounds. Keep working at it. I'm still not very good at it, but I have the most fun doing drums (as well as the most headaches ). Sounds good!

 

[fldrummer]

The kick is their..... It's muddy.

It just needs a little high end boost and maybe a good cut 150-300ish Play around with it and see what you can come up with. It you do some crazy eq and it sounds good... it is good. But mic placment / room / drums / player will make a drum sound good first off.

The overall sound sounds like your in a box. Everthing needs to open up ALOT. The snare sounds under the mix while the cymbals are really mid heavy with any sibilance/highs.

What type of sound are you going for?

 

[nk126]

What type of sound are you going for?

A good one ;-)

I don't know. But when you say it all sounds like it's in a box, that strikes a chord with me. I like a more open, airy sound ... The last record I listened to with a drum sound I really like is Smashing Pumpkins' "Siamese Dream." The drums just sound very live, very present, but also very intentionally recorded, if that makes any sense.

 

[earthboundrec]

A good one ;-)

I don't know. But when you say it all sounds like it's in a box, that strikes a chord with me. I like a more open, airy sound ... The last record I listened to with a drum sound I really like is Smashing Pumpkins' "Siamese Dream." The drums just sound very live, very present, but also very intentionally recorded, if that makes any sense.

oooh.. That's Jimmy Chamberlin and Butch Vig at work. Jimmy is, IMO, one of the best rock drummers out there. Him and Travis Barker.

I'm loading your clips right now.. I'll comment on them in a sec..

 

[Bulls Hit]

Kick needs to come up.
Snare needs more snap, it's kinda dull. Maybe a new head?

 

[earthboundrec]

Ok.. seems to me that the snare could use more crispness to it. What kind of snare is it? For this type of drumming I would just go with one snare instead of having an aux. I dig the aux more for samba and raggea and usually that's a very tight piccolo to get a very contrasting sound. That's completely just my opinion though.

I think your playing seems a little wavery in parts, but very descent overall. Do you practice to a metronome? You'll become a studio ace always "in the pocket" if you do.

Also, let the kick drum come out and kick ass. Treat it like a fuckin' cannon. Let that fucker drive the beat. Lately I've been setting the compressor so that the intial attack is uncompressed and then the comp kicks in after that initial attack. Fuckin' around with the setting and you can get quite an awesome kick sound.

need a different snare sound? (these were from the last session I did)

 

[SonicClang]

Jimmy was awesome in Smashing Pumpkins. I actually don't think they even recorded Siamese Dream to a click track. My last band covered "Cherub Rock" and the bpm were all over the place. It gave the music a real organic feel, even though it sped up and slowed down quite a bit. Butch Vig knew what he was doing when they recorded that album. It's just too bad Jimmy became a big drugie and then Smashing Pumpkins broke up.

 

[nk126]

Kick needs to come up.
Snare needs more snap, it's kinda dull. Maybe a new head?

I made the mistake of trying to record for the first time *and* trying out a "new" used snare for the first time on the same day.


The snare is a Slingerland solid shell maple with re-rings -- appears to be an Artist model (8 lugs). Got it off ebay super cheap, planning to clean it up and wrap it to match my kit -- it came stripped of it's old wrap and basically unfinished. Of course I couldn't wait to try it out, and so threw heads from another snare on there and took it with me. The heads are actually like new, but the Evans Dry batter was obviously overkill. Also, the tension rods and casings, and the throwoff need a good cleaning -- they were pretty sticky and hard to tune.

It's funny, though, because when I was in the studio I actually was concerned that the snare wires were rattling/buzzing and that the mic would pick that up .. instead I got something more like a cardboard box ...

 

[nk126]

Ok.. seems to me that the snare could use more crispness to it. What kind of snare is it?

See post above

For this type of drumming I would just go with one snare instead of having an aux. I dig the aux more for samba and raggea and usually that's a very tight piccolo to get a very contrasting sound. That's completely just my opinion though.

Yeah, the aux is a 12 x 4 maple snare I built myself a couple of years ago and I was basically just curious to see how it'd sound ... it's really fun to play, and being in the studio by myself for an afternoon I had to take a whole bunch of toys with me, you know?

That being said, it's definitely overkill as far as the actual type of music and drumming needed for the music. Next time in, especially when I try recording again, I'll keep it a little simpler!

If I could just ditch the day job and get my landlord to fix up the garage so I could soundproof it and play whenever I want in there ...

I think your playing seems a little wavery in parts, but very descent overall. Do you practice to a metronome? You'll become a studio ace always "in the pocket" if you do.

Thanks. I don't get to practice much these days, and hardly ever do so to a metronome (even though I know it would help a ton). I grew up learning to play by practicing along to tapes. Playing to these little programmed bits is a similar thing for me. One funny thing about this is that I had literally just made up and programmed the bass lines the night before and wasn't real familiar with them -- I was watching the computer screen for visual cues as to the changes. Anyway, on the one track (WestOak) the programming was off and in the "C" section the changes come on offbeats instead of on the 1s. Sounds funny to me, but turned into kind of a fun thing to try to keep my time and play through it, then find my way back to the 1 when the song went back to the A section.

Also, let the kick drum come out and kick ass. Treat it like a fuckin' cannon. Let that fucker drive the beat. Lately I've been setting the compressor so that the intial attack is uncompressed and then the comp kicks in after that initial attack. Fuckin' around with the setting and you can get quite an awesome kick sound.

Um, yeah ... how the hell does compression work?

need a different snare sound? (these were from the last session I did)

Seriously ... Hook me up, dude!

 

[nk126]

Jimmy was awesome in Smashing Pumpkins. I actually don't think they even recorded Siamese Dream to a click track. My last band covered "Cherub Rock" and the bpm were all over the place. It gave the music a real organic feel, even though it sped up and slowed down quite a bit. Butch Vig knew what he was doing when they recorded that album. It's just too bad Jimmy became a big drugie and then Smashing Pumpkins broke up.

When I was in high school and college, the Pumpkins were real big -- maybe at their height, I'm not sure of the timing. Anyway, I was getting real into jazz and funk then and so *hated* the whole grunge and alt rock thing. I'd grown up on classic rock and prog rock like Rush and Yes, and then discovered Miles, Trane, the JBs, Meters, PFunk, etc ... So to me at the time, the Pumpkins were just another lousy "minor chord" band

Long story short, about a month ago I came across a copy of Siamese Dream and I can't stop listening to it. Just a great great rock record, and like you guys said, Jimmy Chamberlain is awesome on it. The drum sounds are awesome, as well. But the playing is this great mix of technical and organic ... just about perfect.

 

[tourettes5139]

I always loved the drum sound from that album; it was great. Jimmy was a fantastic drummer. Can't say the same about Travis Barker, but thats my personal preference. Sure, he's got chops, but I'll take a guy with style over a guy with chops. Anyway, thats enough of me.

 

[nk126]

I haven't heard that much of Travis, but what I have heard I didn't like. Especially the Transplants. What I saw once of Meet the Barkers was pretty funny, though ...

 

[nk126]

Setting Gains and Levels

So here's a question I now have after digesting all of this a bit:

If I'm running my mics through a mixer with preamps and unbalanced inputs, and then running signals out of that to my computer, how should I set the gains and levels?

My idea is to first set all of the mixer's faders to 0 and test each Mic (two overheads, kick, snare, and maybe close mics on toms) to make sure that when I hit as hard as I'm going to, the meter barely gets into the red if at all. And also to make sure that my softest ghost notes get picked up.

Adjustments will be made on the GAINS, not on the faders, yes? The exception being if I have to use unbalanced inputs for one or two of the non-phantom powered dynamic mics -- those I have to adjust using the faders.

From there I'll run those signals into the Mac via 4-track.

With my DAW software I'll make sure that the 4 tracks I'm actually recording (overhead left, overhead right, kick, snare ... If I close mic toms, I'll probably group them into the overhead mix?) give a good signal that, again, doesn't clip very often if at all. Won't worry about mixing at this point -- just getting a good signal.

Does that make sense? What am I missing?

Thanks again ...

 

[SonicClang]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, I'm really sorry. I just had to say that Soma is one of the most dynamic songs ever made and I still get goose bumps thinking of it.

 

[nk126]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, I'm really sorry. I just had to say that Soma is one of the most dynamic songs ever made and I still get goose bumps thinking of it.

Not at all, man. It's a great track. Can't imagine any other way I'd want to listen to a somewhat whiny twit (after all, Billy's a genius songwriter, but by all accounts a giant pain in the ass) say "I'm all by myself" over and over again

 

[mjm620]

Yeah, actually I think it's less the sound of the cymbals than that the toms sound thin and weak and bumping the overhead channels up makes the cymbals too loud.

The main snare is a snare I just got -- an old slingerland solid shell that I was itchy to try*out. Probably not the best idea to try recording for the first time with a drum I'm trying for the first time, but hey ... I think the head combo on it was a little too heavy, and the tuning wasn't great, yeah. Sounded a little thuddy, for sure ..

What can I do to get a bigger tom sound?

Tune your bottom heads a bit higher than your top heads, and tune the top heads a little lower to start out with as well.