Fiddle Microphone?

[mdarnton]

I'm a violin maker, and mainly interested in testing, so I've been trying to hone in on something that sounds like a violin sound, which I've come to realize isn't that common a commodity in the recording world.

My M-Audio USB box came with a "free" 990, and I realized right away that it wasn't the right mic for violin. It sounds about like your 991--harsh, boxy, with an offensive, surface silkiness. If you just want to try a cheap experiment, try a Behringer ECM8000. It's only $50, and not too bad, compared to some of the other things I've been experimenting with. Other than that, look for something that's got a flat response curve. "Presence" bumps really mess with the natural violin sound in a bad way. And I'm inclining towards small-diaphram condensors, rather than larger ones, at least for a natural sound....

 

[mbrebes]

For condensors, an AKG 414 is a very safe choice. My daughter, a tango violinist, has had great success with the Audio Technica ATM35 in live situations. It's a small condensor on a mini gooseneck that sounds great on just about anything (I've used it on guitar, mandolin, banjo, and dobro with great success).

For dynamics, you could try an SM7, RE20, or Sennheiser 441. They all should sound good.
A ribbon would sound good. I don't know about the cheaper ones, like the Shinybox, but Royers and RCA's sound good. If you go with Shinybox, spend the extra money for either the Lundahl or Cinemag transformer option. They make a big difference in the sound.

 

[DavidK]

For condensors, an AKG 414 is a very safe choice. My daughter, a tango violinist, has had great success with the Audio Technica ATM35 in live situations. It's a small condensor on a mini gooseneck that sounds great on just about anything (I've used it on guitar, mandolin, banjo, and dobro with great success).

For dynamics, you could try an SM7, RE20, or Sennheiser 441. They all should sound good.
A ribbon would sound good. I don't know about the cheaper ones, like the Shinybox, but Royers and RCA's sound good. If you go with Shinybox, spend the extra money for either the Lundahl or Cinemag transformer option. They make a big difference in the sound.

He's looking for a mic UNDER 500, not over

Personally, I am finding out more and more how important the room is. I would make sure I was recording in the finest room available before I ruled out anything. My living room just aint cuttin it any more

 

[kid klash]

I've been using an SM-81 SDC for violins/fiddles for many years. Very natural and detailed sounding. Far less than $500 a pop too.

 

[cominginsecond]

I never used my Nady RSM-2 on violin, but my guess is, based on using it a lot, it would be really nice. My AEA R92 was phenomenal on violin, but it can't really be had for less than $700, so I guess it's out of your price range.

 

[chipwits]

Personally, I am finding out more and more how important the room is. I would make sure I was recording in the finest room available before I ruled out anything.

I am stuck the confines of my approximately 12 x 12 bedroom. I haven't done any treating. The walls are flat painted drywall. Large window to the north, covered by vinyl shade. The west wall is entirely empty drywall. South wall is door and empty drywall with a long chest of drawers in front of it. The wall which I face my computer is the eastern wall. 1/2 drywall 1/2 recesssed currently empty closet.

Should I make one wall covered with foam and keep the opposign wall empty? I have no clue about sound in a room. But I do think my instruments sound much better in my room than my living room. Perhaps cause it is smaller area.

Oh my room is carpeted with fairly thick and padded shag carpet.

Oh Btw, I guess I could spend up to $750 or so for a mic. Seems like there are many more viable options up to that price range.
Thanks,
James

 

[gtrman_66]

I'll second the sm-81 for fiddle. I recorded a lot of country band stuff back in the '90s and the '81 was always my go-to mic for the fiddler. Fantastic drum overhead and acoustic guitar mic too

 

[chipwits]

Dan Micah: Have you tried Sure SM-81 on fiddle? If so, how does it compare to the KM184?

Also, I see the KM184 for sell on Ebay under $600, but it is "B" stock, whatever that is. Should I avoid that?

 

[mshilarious]

I sold my SM81s a few months back, in favor of the KSM141. In fact I specifically preferred the 141 on fiddle, even though it has a presence boost which the 81 does not, it's a very pleasing sound. I found I could control the tone of the fiddle easily by raising or lowering the mic relative to the soundboard.

I would save some of your cash for room treatments. Honestly, I can hardly imagine a much worse space. But if you are determined to avoid improvements, then I would lean towards a ribbon mic, which sounds good close to the fiddle, thereby excluding the room sound somewhat.

 

[BigRay]

fiddle/violin====I really love the Jecklin Disc with a decent pair of omnis too...sounds so very natural! heaven!

 

[petimar]

My favs for fiddle are a ribbon (R121 Royer) and John Hardy preamp. Those will set you back a couple grand though.

I've heard good things about the Shiny Box mics, though not as highly thought of as Royers or AEA.

My favorite mic position is over the headstock at the height of the top of the players head, pointed at the players chin. On axis to the sound holes often results in a brittle sound with lots of bow noise, especially with condensers.

 

[Dan Micah]

No Idea!

Dan Micah: Have you tried Sure SM-81 on fiddle? If so, how does it compare to the KM184?

Also, I see the KM184 for sell on Ebay under $600, but it is "B" stock, whatever that is. Should I avoid that?

Hi Chip,

Sorry, I haven't tried the sm-81, and I don't know anything about the 'B' stock. I got the music shop I go to to order in the km184, and recorded a few samples, then played them back on their studio monitors. A bit of a hassle, but I went in mid week, and teed it up in advance.

Also, room makes a HUGE difference. Reflective floor, and not too reflective walls and ceilings are desirable for acoustic instruments. The bigger the space, especially the ceiling the better. An easy treatment to try is buy some cheap plywood to stand on, and cover one of each pair of walls with heavy plankets or doonas - quilts. Good room, good mic, good placement, probably will be needed to get a good sound, especially for acoustic instruments like fiddle that have so many harmonics and overtones.

Dan

 

[up-fiddler]

I have had to dink around with placement for quite a bit but have had decent results with my 991 and a bit of EQ off the top. I usually use my Studio Projects T3 though. Again, placement is the key and will vary from room to room. I start about 3' away and higher than the fiddle and a bit to the left (bass) side and play and move around from there. Once I find the spot I have my wife or whoever happens to be around hit RECORD I know a lot of folks swear by the sm81 but I don't own one (YET!) Hope this helps.

 

[mrface2112]

i recorded a fiddle player a couple years back with a studio projects B1 and got definitely acceptable results. much better than i expected for an $80 mic. i'm sure an SM81 would do a great job too.

the trick was to get the mic up above the fiddle and several feet away, which is sometimes difficult in a room with low ceilings (the room is very important). fiddles need some air to breathe, so close-micing doesn't always do the trick. luckily this guy was kinda short.

whoever said to hang the mic up high, give the fiddle player some headphones and have them walk around underneath the mic until they liked what they heard gave excellent advice.


cheers,
wade

 

[Harvey Gerst]

It looks like Byron Berline uses an Audio Technica condenser on stage. I'll see him this weekend and find out what model he's using.

Talked to Byron Saturday; he thinks it's an AT3035. He didn't remember the exact model number.

 

[chipwits]

Thanks much Harvey. Guess I'll add that mic to my collection.

James

 

[Bodhisan]

Shiny Box (the cheapest one -- don't have the number in front of me) about a foot away, 6" above the fiddle, and then I use an AKG451B about three feet away, about a foot higher than the box (fiddle). Both into SP VTB-1's. Dial in your sound. Compression reels it all in. For me. And like everybody else, I'm particular about the fiddle sound. Whatever Harvey says, though, how can you go wrong? That said -- I think all professional fiddlers can be captured with about anything. It's hack players like me that need a ribbon to take away the harshness, and a second mike to give me the highs the ribbon lacks.

Bodhisan

 

[petimar]

"It's hack players like me that need a ribbon to take away the harshness, and a second mike to give me the highs the ribbon lacks."

Many ribbon mics take lots of EQ well. You can often do this for the highs.

 

[tnjazz]

I thought that the difference between a violin and a fiddle was the mic you used to record it. High dollar condenser for a violin, sm57 for a fiddle.

Ah, that makes more sense.

Someone a long time ago told me the difference between a violin and a fiddle is you don't spill beer into a violin.

 

[Bodhisan]

Petimar -- you're right, and sometimes I get nice recorded fiddle with just the ribbon if I'm lazy, pushing up the high eq, but it's nice to get it with the AKG as a 2nd mike and not eq (basically the same results, just...snazzier).

Bodhisan