Fender Vs. Sqiuer SADDLES

[stevieb]

Not a theoretical query...

Bought a Lotus Strat at a garage sale, intentions to clean it up and re-sell. Two saddles (string carriers, between the bridge and the strings) were missing. Got a take-off Fender Strat bridge- freebie from my buds at Ken Stanton Music- and noticed some differences between it and the similar part on my 2001 top-drawer Sqiuer Strat:

Fender bridge is vintage style, and only allows down action on the whammy. I prefer the modern style, as it allows pushing down or pulling up on whammy bar.

Fender saddles are stamped from heavy-gauge, ferrous metal, and chrome plated. Squiers are cast metal, and NOT magnetic.

Any advantages either way? Worth it to change them out? (I am keeping the Squier, selling the Lotus.)

Thanks.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Strat bridges can float...if you dont like staying in tune...I always locked them down and bent my strings for that effect.

 

[Light]

Fender's come with either stamped or cast saddles, depending on the model. The stamped are typically on "vintage reissue" models and some "artist signature" models, and the cast on the modern "Standard" or "Deluxe" models. The cast saddles are a bit warmer, and tend to kill the attack a bit. The stamped ones are a bit brighter, and tend to have a really nice sharp attack that sounds very "straty" to most people's ears. It's not a huge difference, but it is there, and it is real. I can't say as that I have a preference, personally, but they both work fine.

Squire's also will come with either type, as near as I can tell depending on either a) what they can get cheap that week, or b) whatever they have laying around the factory that week.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Micter]

I used to do all of the plating for Fender years ago and there is no difference in the saddles. There are only three types. Stamped, cast that can be right handed or left handed. That's it!

 

[GONZO-X]

replace them all with graphtec saddle replacements

 

[stevieb]

There are only three types. Stamped, cast that can be right handed or left handed. That's it!

WHOA! Lefty or wrongie SADDLES?? They look 100% symmetrical to me. How can you tell lefts from wrongs? Seriously, thanks for the input, but I would think there could be subtle differences- for example, if one method resulted in a denser piece, I would think that greater density would transmit more energy (in the form of vibrations, which the rest of the rig turns into sound) down-line. My thinking is the stamped saddles would be denser, as the metal is compressed more when it is being formed into the raw stock.

Darrin, thanks to you for the input, but I do not have a big problem with my whammy bar- guitars staying in tune, and you can always just re-tune 'em. I basically accept that the guitar will go out of tune when I use the whammy. When I need precise tuning through out the song, I play the Les Paul.

I am certainly NOT going to go to the expense and trouble to install graphite saddles on the Lotus- it's a budget guitar and for sale. Let the next guy do that if he wants- I would never get my money back from that upgrade. There is a set of graphite saddles at a music shop near me, on clearance... what are the advantages to graphite, really? What is a very good price to pay for them?

So, Light, I understand what you are saying. I checked the sale prices of those 4 levels of Strats, and generally speaking they are, most pricy to least: Artist (most $), American Vintage, American Deluxe, and American Standard (least $.) Given that fact and what you say about the stamped saddles giving the guitar a little more "strat sound," I think I want to put the stamped ones on the guitar I am keeping, the cast ones on the one that is to be sold. Agree? (In general, I mean- I know there are many other factors, including personal taste.) What is your opinion of the graphite vs. stamped saddles?

Thanks, all. Further comments appreciated.

 

[GONZO-X]

I am certainly NOT going to go to the expense and trouble to install graphite saddles on the Lotus

but that would be the single best change you could make.

if you're really not that interested in improving the overall tone and playability, i'd suggest just leaving it like it is.

that'd be a real budget call.


have you ever tried the graphtecs?

plus, there's MUCH more involved with what makes one trem sound better or work better than whether or not it's floating.

 

[stevieb]

Come on Gonzo, let's get real, here- $60 upgrade on a guitar that will sell, at best, for $150, even with out the graphtechs? That's just not realistic. Why are you shilling them so hard, anyway? You work for the company or something? I agree, they may be worth it for the strat I am KEEPING, but NO FREAKIN' WAY am I going to shell out sixty bux or more on this for-sale guitar.

And who said anything about whether or not the bridge is floating? This thread is about SADDLES, not the whole bridge.

 

[Micter]

WHOA! Lefty or wrongie SADDLES?? They look 100% symmetrical to me. How can you tell lefts from wrongs? Seriously, thanks for the input, but I would think there could be subtle differences- for example, if one method resulted in a denser piece, I would think that greater density would transmit more energy (in the form of vibrations, which the rest of the rig turns into sound) down-line. My thinking is the stamped saddles would be denser, as the metal is compressed more when it is being formed into the raw stock.

Darrin, thanks to you for the input, but I do not have a big problem with my whammy bar- guitars staying in tune, and you can always just re-tune 'em. I basically accept that the guitar will go out of tune when I use the whammy. When I need precise tuning through out the song, I play the Les Paul.

I am certainly NOT going to go to the expense and trouble to install graphite saddles on the Lotus- it's a budget guitar and for sale. Let the next guy do that if he wants- I would never get my money back from that upgrade. There is a set of graphite saddles at a music shop near me, on clearance... what are the advantages to graphite, really? What is a very good price to pay for them?

So, Light, I understand what you are saying. I checked the sale prices of those 4 levels of Strats, and generally speaking they are, most pricy to least: Artist (most $), American Vintage, American Deluxe, and American Standard (least $.) Given that fact and what you say about the stamped saddles giving the guitar a little more "strat sound," I think I want to put the stamped ones on the guitar I am keeping, the cast ones on the one that is to be sold. Agree? (In general, I mean- I know there are many other factors, including personal taste.) What is your opinion of the graphite vs. stamped saddles?

Thanks, all. Further comments appreciated.

The difference is where the intonation adjustment screw is. lol

 

[stevieb]

You got me, Micter.

 

[Light]

I used to do all of the plating for Fender years ago and there is no difference in the saddles. There are only three types. Stamped, cast that can be right handed or left handed. That's it!

There are several versions. The offset ones were only used on a few guitars back in the eighties (I think they were the Strat Plus). These days they are all centered.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[GONZO-X]

stevieB stated this opinion:

"Fender bridge is vintage style, and only allows down action on the whammy. I prefer the modern style, as it allows pushing down or pulling up on whammy bar."

after i replied, stevieB said:

"And who said anything about whether or not the bridge is floating? This thread is about SADDLES, not the whole bridge."

well, YOU said something about whether or not the bridge is floating!
LOL
i think you are confused.....
and it does matter to tone.



stevieB asked the question:

"Worth it to change them out?"

well, it depends on how much you care about your tone or not.

some people are really into it, and some don't give a crap.
i'm just asking, which are you?
why did you even ask the question, if you didn't want people to respond or try to help?



on the graphtecs:
stevieb said:

"Why are you shilling them so hard, anyway? You work for the company or something?"

that's pretty rude, dude.

i only mentioned them, because they work, and you asked.

no, i do not work for them, i hardly think that casually mentioning them in a thread, would seem like i'm 'shilling' them.

i believe you overreacted, though i can't begin to imagine why you would, unless i hit some strange nerve pertaining to something i couldn't possibly know about....


so, let's get real.

 

[Micter]

There are several versions. The offset ones were only used on a few guitars back in the eighties (I think they were the Strat Plus). These days they are all centered.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I was doing their plating in the late 90's and they were offset then. I know because we had to keep the separated.

 

[stevieb]

Sweet JESUS, Gonzo, didn't you see the " " I put in there? You certainly had to, as you DELETED it before quoting me. Now who's being rude?

Hell, you even get insulting:

well, it depends on how much you care about your tone or not.

some people are really into it, and some don't give a crap.
i'm just asking, which are you?

How DARE you come into MY thread and imply that I don't care about my tone?

And if you ARE going to be here, can we PLEASE stick to the topic at hand? That being, Which of the two sets of saddles I have would be best to put on the guitar I am keeping?

Read that carefully, Gonzo- NOTHING about graphite, or unobtanium, in my original post. It's not like I asked, "What's the best saddle to use?" or ANYTHING like that. STAY ON TOPIC WHYDONTCHA???

As to my "asking" about them, YOU brought them up, not me. In my OP, I didn't say SQUAT about graphic saddles.

And I even said

what are the advantages to graphite, really? What is a very good price to pay for them?

Which you have chosen to not address.

I even asked Light:

So, Light, ...What is your opinion of the graphite vs. stamped saddles?

I AM listening to people's suggestion, here. Even yours- off-topic they may be:

Thanks, all. Further comments appreciated.

You are the one that needs to get real. Or get gone. And frankly, at this point, I don't care which it is.

 

[GONZO-X]

oooh,
you sure ripped me a new one.

 

[Light]

I was doing their plating in the late 90's and they were offset then. I know because we had to keep the separated.

If all you saw were stamped or offset saddles you were not doing a very high percentage of their saddles in the late nineties. Even when they use offset saddles, most of them are offset to the same side.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Oh, and I actually like Graph Tech's String Saver saddles. I have them on one of my Strats, though that one is out of commission at the moment. I got them at first because I was breaking a shit ton of stings, and they helped a LOT. I can't say that I noticed a huge difference in sound with the cast saddles I had before them, though I hear the difference with stamped saddles.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[stevieb]

Well, thanks for stepping in to try to shed some "light" on the subject. But now I am confused.

You told me that the higher-priced Fender Strats had stamped saddles. Well, you told me which Strats had them, I checked the prices myself.

IF there is a direct relationship between price and quality of components, it would seem that the stamped saddles are "better" (in a general sense.)

But now you imply a sonic difference between the graphite saddles and the STAMPED saddles, but little on no dif. between graph. and CAST saddles. You do not say if you liked the tone the graph saddles gave you, but I would imagine you do.

So, Light, please lay it out for me: Rate, in sound quality, CAST, STAMPED, and GRAPHITE saddles, from best to "worst."

Oh, and to add to other confusion this thread has started (which seems to be what it does, best!) I have seen saddles that were off-set Left or Right, too. Can't remember what on, though.

 

[Light]

You told me that the higher-priced Fender Strats had stamped saddles. Well, you told me which Strats had them, I checked the prices myself.

You're putting words and value judgements in my mouth there that I never wrote. I never said any of them were better, I just said they were different. The stamped saddles are what they used on the vintage stuff, which is why a lot of people like them (because they assume that Leo Fender alway got everything right - they are obviously forgetting about the trem on the Jazzmaster!)

So, Light, please lay it out for me: Rate, in sound quality, CAST, STAMPED, and GRAPHITE saddles, from best to "worst."

Nope, not gonna do it. I don't think there is a difference in sound quality. None of them are better or worse - just different. It's up to you to decide which one you like the most.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[stevieb]

Fair enough- not trying to speak for you, just trying to sum up what I thought you were saying.

I'd say this thread was a colloussal waste of time, more than anything else...

thanks for the input, all the same.