Fender vs. Grover vs. Holy Grail?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GT
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GT

GT

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Does anyone own a electic guitar, that you can bend the strings as much as you like and still be in tune.

I starting to consider changing from Grover to Fender tuners, to see if they are better.

Although, if someone knows the secret, please share.

I promise I won't tell.

BTW: Today I'm going to try bar chain oil on my nut.

Best oil ever invented. I use it for everthing.

I will aply it with a toothpick, I have some left over from the bridge my daughter and I are building.

GT
 
i do this now.......

i use a kahler tremelo. the top of the line model........

i think it's a 2300........

i use the bar to pull up whole steps, and down as far as it can go......

i mostly use it as gentle vibrato on long sustained notes.......

i also use it to approximate pedal steel effects.......

i bend 2 whole steps at certain points on the neck, and when i come back down, i tap the bar to reset the balance between the springs and the strings.......

the nut is graphite, and the locking nut is actually behind the nut, on the top of the headstock.
 
oh yeah......

the tuners......

they almost become irrelevent, after i tune up the first time, and then do the lock, i don't touch the tuners til next string change.

this is the best system.
there will always be some change in pitch associated with the distance from the tuner (locking or otherwise) to the nut, then from the nut to the bridge.......

locking at the nut (or in my case, right behind it) eliminates the issue.
 
Re: oh yeah......

GONZO-X said:
the tuners......

they almost become irrelevent, after i tune up the first time, and then do the lock, i don't touch the tuners til next string change.

this is the best system.
there will always be some change in pitch associated with the distance from the tuner (locking or otherwise) to the nut, then from the nut to the bridge.......

locking at the nut (or in my case, right behind it) eliminates the issue.
Click to expand...

Gonzo finds Holy Grail, the secret is out!!! Details right now!!

Gonzo you've made my day. A couple of questions.

1. How would I go about getting and installing one on my guitar, and do you think the average joe could do it?

2. How does it actually lock?

If what you say is true, I gots to have it.

Finally someone who has a solution to this problem, Gonzo be thy name!!

Also if what you say is true, guitars that don't have it are far inferior to the ones that do!! FAR INFERIOR!!

YOU DA MAN, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH!!!!!!

GT
 
i'm just tryin' to help.......

but GT...............

be aware, one mans passion is another's poison........

The Kahler works for me, but a lot of people that like the more traditional feel of a Fender style tremelo, or even a floyd rose, hates the Kahler.

look at steve vai, that mf'r pulls his trems just about off the guitar body, and he almost never goes out of tune.

i think the floyd rose is just as good, as far as staying in tune goes.......

i just happen to like the Kahler better, for my style.

No one carries the Kahler anymore, you have to order direct, or hunt for a dealer that just happens to have one.

http://www.kahlerinternational.com/

the lock works by an allen wrench, turning a little round vise that clamps down on each string.

i put a new set on, tune up, play like crazy, pull the strings, re-tune, then lock. There are fine tuners on the bridge to tune after the lock down.
 
you know what, i have a rick 360, and it hardly ever goes out of tune when i'm playing. it has german tuners, and no locking system. i do tighten the tuners' screws regularly tough.
 
I used to have a Floyd Rose on an old guitar, and I wasn't a big fan of the locking nuts - too much hassle to change a string, etc., especially when playing live.

I recently built a guitar and put a set of Sperzel locking tuners on. I don't use the trem (a vintage strat style) too much, but the tuning is rock solid, and I don't need to worry about the locking nut issue. I also use a graphtech trem-nut on there, which I am sure helps some, too.

Definitely play with some locking nut guitars before you decide to cut your guitar up in order to install one.
 
I have a 1971 Telecaster that NEVER goes out of tune. It's the most stable guitar I've ever owned. Stock Fender tuners (the kind where the string goes down inside the tuner through a sloted hole in the top of the peg). When I was playing out a lot, I would tune at the beginning of the night and never have to touch it again. Many times the next night it would STILL be in tune. I could swing my way out of a bar fight with it, wipe the blood off, plug it in and it's still in tune.
 
here's my secret

when we played my drummer gets pissed becuase i would switch between my les paul and strat for certain songs and th strat (brand new american )would never be or stay in tune . well first thing i did was buy locking fender(sperzel knock offs)tuners second i got a LSR roller nut by fender had this installed buy the guys at www.splawnguitars.com along with a complete setup . now th lsr is not a locker it uses ballbearings at th nut so th string doesn't hang on a bone nut . th last gig we played i think i tuned once and that was after a very spirited song with some heavy handed playing .....i have since put a hotrails in so i don't switch much for th heavy stuff now ....so this won't work for everyone but if your holding FENDER it's th way to go ....later
 
The light at the end of the tunnle..........

First off,

This has turned out to be a very interesting, look at a very serious shortcoming, of electric guitars.

I also wanted to remind Gonzo, I was refering to the locking nut, not as being the posible Holy Grail, not tremolo.

Track Rat, you've kind of confirmed my suspision, that the tuner may make a big differance as to the guitars ability to stay tuned.

Maybe Fender tuners are best, but maybe all Fenders tuners are not the same, and there's only one best.

Seems like a locking nut, would be rock solid, no? I hardly ever change strings until they break, so having them locked down would not be a problem.

I really think that this problem should not exist.

So far the locking nut, seems to me to be the Holy Grail.

GT
 
Unless I'm mistaken, Fender doesn't make it's own tuners - they're relabeled Schallers or another brand.

Maybe I'm wrong?
 
Re: The light at the end of the tunnle..........

GT said:
I also wanted to remind Gonzo, I was refering to the locking nut, not as being the posible Holy Grail, not tremolo.

Seems like a locking nut, would be rock solid, no? I hardly ever change strings until they break, so having them locked down would not be a problem.

So far the locking nut, seems to me to be the Holy Grail.
Click to expand...


I've noticed that you originally mention keeping strings in tune when bending. However, you never mention using a trem. In light of this, I can't quite decipher the first sentence above, but it seems to imply you are not going to use a trem.

If this is the case, keep in mind, if you get a locking nut, it is all but necessary to use a bridge with fine tuners with the locking nut.
 
Went to Sam Ash,

The high dollar Ibanezs use the locking nut.

The high dollar Fenders use locking tuners, as do the Music Mans.

I would not be able to put a locking nut on my guitar without modifiying it, and I really don't wany to mess with having it done.

Fender sells locking tuners for $70.00 looks like that's what I will try next. If it gives any improvement at all, it will be worth it.

I should have said finger bends, that's what I meant.

GT
 
KaBudokan said:
The Fender locking tuners are Schallers. Also check out Sperzels. I have the Sperzels and prefer them, but it's a personal opinion.

Also, you can get the tuners for less than $70 if you don't mind not having the Fender logo on them. (I bought my Sperzels from a dealer on ebay for $41, which is a steal. They're usually about $60.)

http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/haze...section=guitar&5=+sort=1&item=catalog/ss.html
Click to expand...

Hey K,

I assume you went from regular tuners to locking tuners, did you notice an improvement?

Also, thanks for the tip, on price.

GT
 
GT said:
Hey K,

I assume you went from regular tuners to locking tuners, did you notice an improvement?

Also, thanks for the tip, on price.

GT
Click to expand...

Well, these tuners actually went on a new guitar I built, so I didn't have other tuners on there before. I can say that this guitar stays in tune better than my American Strat, which has the standard non-locking tuners. My Strat isn't bad though - not bad enough that I will probably replace the tuners...

I love the Sperzels though... They have a great, solid feel, it's much easier to change a string, and the tuning is very precise. You should be able to get them for under $50 from eBay, or $60 at the music store or online.
 
Thanks K,

I'll look into getting a set of sperzels.

Sounds like a winner.

GT
 
I'm probably getting Linear String Rotation tuners on my next electric. I think the tuning ratio is 40:1.
 
TheGuitarMan said:
I'm probably getting Linear String Rotation tuners on my next electric. I think the tuning ratio is 40:1.
Click to expand...

Talk about being able to fine tune, 40:1!!

Better make sure you have a string winder, or chinging strings could take all day.

GT
 
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