ethan's articles

  • Thread starter Thread starter FALKEN
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FALKEN said:
I am pretty sure I can cut that shit!!!

I think you could lessen the situation, but not fix it.
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Man, Falken... sounds like you have all the answers... why are you wasting your time in this forum?

This stuff can be as complicated as you want to make it. There are no written-in-stone solutions to everyone's problems because there are way too many variables in the equation. The only way to know for sure what will work in your room is to take lots of measurements while trying various treatments/placements. Basically... start an acoustics research program for your specific room. :D

I recently helped my drummer convert his garage into a rehearsal/studio space. We made over 40 of these absorption panels using rock wool boards. We hung them all over the room... on the ceiling, all over the walls, and in the corners. Are we getting the best bang for the buck? I doubt it. If we had taken the time to do careful measurements we probably could've maximized the absorption of each panel and created the best sounding room possible. But we just kind of threw them up all over the place.

Guess what? The room sounds freaking awesome! You notice the sound immediately when you walk in the room. It is so obvious... the room sounds "good." It's not the psychology of "I bought the stuff so I think it sounds good," because people who have no vested interest in the room (and know nothing about sound or recording) have commented on how good the room sounds.

Seriously, just get some panels and shut the hell up already. Nobody said it was going to be simple (or cheap). If you want to find out whether diffusors, slot resonators, or absorbers work better in *your* room, make some and test them. If you treat your room and then decide it wasn't worth it (I highly doubt that will happen), I'm sure you can find several people on this BBS to buy your unwanted panels.
 
Scottgman said:
Man, Falken... sounds like you have all the answers... why are you wasting your time in this forum?

This stuff can be as complicated as you want to make it. There are no written-in-stone solutions to everyone's problems because there are way too many variables in the equation. The only way to know for sure what will work in your room is to take lots of measurements while trying various treatments/placements. Basically... start an acoustics research program for your specific room. :D

I recently helped my drummer convert his garage into a rehearsal/studio space. We made over 40 of these absorption panels using rock wool boards. We hung them all over the room... on the ceiling, all over the walls, and in the corners. Are we getting the best bang for the buck? I doubt it. If we had taken the time to do careful measurements we probably could've maximized the absorption of each panel and created the best sounding room possible. But we just kind of threw them up all over the place.

Guess what? The room sounds freaking awesome! You notice the sound immediately when you walk in the room. It is so obvious... the room sounds "good." It's not the psychology of "I bought the stuff so I think it sounds good," because people who have no vested interest in the room (and know nothing about sound or recording) have commented on how good the room sounds.

Seriously, just get some panels and shut the hell up already. Nobody said it was going to be simple (or cheap). If you want to find out whether diffusors, slot resonators, or absorbers work better in *your* room, make some and test them. If you treat your room and then decide it wasn't worth it (I highly doubt that will happen), I'm sure you can find several people on this BBS to buy your unwanted panels.
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that is good advice and a good testimonial. I just want to know the *purpose* of what I am doing before I do it. Would it be sane to go out and buy a Mesa, Marshall, Fender, Orange, Hiwatt, etc. etc. amp and "try them out" to see what sounds best?????? but yeah I guess I am bitching a bit. There is a lot of misinformation on this BBS and I think it is worthwhile to sort it out a bit.

what made you choose rockwool over fiberglass?
 
FALKEN said:
that is good advice and a good testimonial. I just want to know the *purpose* of what I am doing before I do it. Would it be sane to go out and buy a Mesa, Marshall, Fender, Orange, Hiwatt, etc. etc. amp and "try them out" to see what sounds best?????? but yeah I guess I am bitching a bit. There is a lot of misinformation on this BBS and I think it is worthwhile to sort it out a bit.

what made you choose rockwool over fiberglass?
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Just trying to bring it all back into perspective. :D

The reason I used rock wool was cost. I got the stuff from www.spi-co.com and these were the prices for 2'x4'x2" panels (the rock wool boards I got were actually 8pcf density-- over twice as dense as the OC fiberglass):

OC703 = $.99 per sq ft
Rock wool = $.39 per sq ft

As far as I can tell, the acoustic properties of rigid fiberglass and rock wool are identical. Or... at least close enough to being identical that you can treat them as the same thing.
 
FALKEN,

> so If I choose not to put up broadbands, I will still have nodes? <

Maybe it's time once again to link my Acoustics FAQ:

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

If you spend a few hours reading and "absorbing" the information there, you'll be way ahead of where you are now. There's also a lot of solid info on the Articles page of my company's web site. For example, all of my recent EQ and EM magazine articles are there.

--Ethan
 
It's up to the acoustician to apply those materials to meet the client's needs.
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Like the Hemholtz Resonators that were calculated from an INCORRECT formula that was published in books for YEARS, and NO ONE ever heard a thing, hmmmmmm? :)
fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Like the Hemholtz Resonators that were calculated from an INCORRECT formula that was published in books for YEARS, and NO ONE ever heard a thing, hmmmmmm? :)
fitZ
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Could you document that? Not meaning to be a jerk, but I work in that field and a HR is a very simple mechanism. There's a plug of air bouncing on a spring made up of the air in the body. The mass and spring stiffness are straightforward calculations, and if you know those two, the frequency is also simple.
 
ould you document that? Not meaning to be a jerk, but I work in that field and a HR is a very simple mechanism.
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I only know what I read.

http://www.recording.org/ftopicp-145137.html
I read the original post at John Sayers Acoustics forum. I just looked for it, and it has been removed for some reason(hmmmmm ALL Erics posts were removed) However there is a "sticky" which clarifies somewhat and shows the corrected formula. I asked the question there, "if this has been in error for so long, then why has no one HEARD it? Steve gave an answer. I still wonder.
fitZ
 
An equilateral triangle is..........

an equilateral triangle. :cool:
 
The "error" put the center frequency about an octave higher. Anybody going to the trouble of building slot resonators should consider a broadband solution as opposed to trying to dial in *one* single frequency.

I doubt most folks building slot resonators are testing them in a certified lab. I checked around to get my gobos tested, and the only place I could find that had a big enough room and was "open to the public" was in MA somewhere. It would cost more to test them than to build them!
 
So I emailed M-Audio Tech Support to see what they said about the treatment. I also wanted to see how far away they recommend having the speakers, because it is not even in the manual. These monitors are LOUD! about 60 watts each....I used to have them on my desk, just maybe 2-3 feet from my head! now they are backed up and maybe 6 feet away. Here was my letter, followed by their response:

--------------------------------------

I was looking in my manual for the monitors and it says to put them in an
equilateral triangle with my head but it does not say how far away to place
them. I thought they were "near field" monitors but they are very loud, so
I keep them on low volume. So my first question is how far should I place
them from my head?

I have read online that in order to monitor correctly, I need to create a
"Reflection Free Zone" whereby the intial reflections from the monitors are
"absorbed" by foam or insulation before they reach the listener. Without
doing this the user cannot realize the full potential of their mixes. Is
this recommended for use with the BX8 monitors?

I have also read that my room dimensions might cause problems in monitoring
and that the bass frequencies must be "trapped" or else they will create
"standing waves" and my mixes will not "translate" well. My BX8's have an
"acoustic space" switch and also a "low cutoff". would you also recommend
"bass traps" for use with your monitors?

Thanks for all of your help.

-----------------------

All of this information is mostly a matter of opinion. I would suggest that you do some research on how to set up speakers in a studio, we can only tech problems that have risen with your product.

Please let us know if you need further assistance.

Take Care,
 
well, they did say that it was mostly a matter of "opinion".

but at the same time, maybe they don't exactly want to say "yes".

or maybe they just don't know.

i guess there is no point.

still learning.
 
FALKEN said:
well, they did say that it was mostly a matter of "opinion".

but at the same time, maybe they don't exactly want to say "yes".

or maybe they just don't know.

i guess there is no point.

still learning.
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Falken, why do you keep implying that this stuff is voodoo? All of your posts seem to have this underlying assumption that room treatment is just a steaming pile of horse shit.

What the hell is some geek at M-Audio tech support going to know about acoustics? And why would you give that M-Audio tech support geek more credibility than someone who has data from actually testing room treatments (like Ethan)?

Why are you even bothering if you think this stuff is a bunch of BS or "matter of opinion?"
 
Scottgman said:
Why are you even bothering if you think this stuff is a bunch of BS or "matter of opinion?"
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this site has challenged my beliefs. changing them is not easy.
 
Scott,

> What the hell is some geek at M-Audio tech support going to know about acoustics? <

That's exactly what I was thinking as I read that exchange.

--Ethan
 
I would *assume* that their products have been Tested under different conditions and that they would have some sort of information relating to their brand of speakers and how they perform under those conditions. was that really too much to expect? guess so.
 
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