Eq -ing drums to tape?

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frosty55

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Can anyone advise me how to Eq drums onto tape?
I want to record a demo of my band onto a Teac 80-8, with two tracks taking up the whole drumkit., leaving the remaining tracks for lead vocal, two guitars, bass, Backing vox.
I understand you have to pan the drums to certain positions in the stereo field, but since I only have a cheap Behringer equalizer and the Eq on the mixer, how best to do it is my query.
Any advice appreciated thanks.
 
Get things sounding as good as possible with mic placement alone and record the drums in a large, open room if you have the luxury. Tracking dums in small, untreated rooms will usually yield problems in the midbass and sound washy and smeared. I don't go for EQ on the way in unless I'm in a hurry and don't any better option. Often trying a different instrument or mic, and/or moving a mic or two as little as an inch can make all the difference. Also it goes without saying that you need fresh, well tuned heads or it'll just be a mess.

Beyond that there's no hard rules with EQ. Use your ears and do what you have to do to get things sounding right. When getting a drum sound to tape, think about all the other elements in the mix that you're going to have to leave space for and what frequencies will be overlapping where. If you know you'll have a bass competing with the kick drum, guitars and vocals that have to share space with a snare etc, keep all this in consideration when you tune and voice your drum kit and start putting mics up. I like to start with as few mics as is practical and only add what's necessary. I start with a mic in the kick and a single or stereo pair overhead and get things sounding as present, full and balanced as I can, and if something's still missing or not quite right, I'll look at trying a different size or type of drum or cymbal, and if that's not an option or not doing it, then I'll put up another mic. The more mics you put up, the more you'll have to be conscious of polarity and work around phasing problems, and the more you'll be wanting to reach for those EQs. Often changing one snare out for another does the trick better than any EQ tomfoolery.

That being said, it's not uncommon for me to goose up just a little kick somewhere between 80-150, this can also get a little more bottom from toms in a minimalist mic setup. 2ish-4.5k is a key area for batter click. Sometimes a mild mid scoop of the overhead can help male vocals/guitar/piano sit in the mix better. If they're a little piercing or forward or you need to get a little more clarity out of a female vocal, 2-5k is a good region to explore.
 
If you get the mics set right and pan everything where you want it to end up on those two tracks...I wouldn't worry about EQ...just record it flat, as-it-falls.

Later on, when you get ready to mix all your track along with the drums tracks...THEN you can start thinking about EQ for all the tracks and how they are fitting in the mix.

I very rarely EQ anything during tracking. Make the mics do the work during tracking.
 
The OP seems to be planning on mixing the drums to two tracks. How much of the above advice applies? And does he have a control room with enough isolation to eq in real-time or will he have to record several passes of the drums to nail down levels much less eq?
 
Well...I guess it depends on how complicated he wants to make the drum recording.
An O/H pair and a couple of spot mics, I think he should be able to make it into a cohesive "kit" without getting into any decisive EQ decisions if the mics and room work for him, but then of course he will have to EQ the track pair when he mixes them with the other tracks.

I'm just thinking that since he's asking "How should I EQ them?"....it's maybe best he leave it for later when he can hear the whole mix. :)
 
Thanks, but its just that I read quite a few things about cutting all the bottom end of your mix. They often advise to cut up to 50hz off everything but the kick and bass guitar to leave room for the mix to breathe. I just guessed that I would have to treat the Eq of each bit of the drumkit before being recorded to the two tracks of the recorder.
I would guess its impossible to do that once everythings on tape.
 
If you have high pass filters on your mics or mixer's channel strips and IF it sounds better using them on sources that don't need to pick up or pass anything below 50, 800, 100hz (whatever your HPF is fixed at), then definitely give them a try, but in recording it's always better to use your EARS than your eyes. Also keep in mind that at the end of the day, putting an EQ circuit in the chain always means more distortion, hence, again, don't use it if you don't need to especially on the way in. Honestly, very little of what you're recording has much below 80 or 100hz...bass, kick, the bigger floor toms, bottom couple piano/organ octaves. They can certainly also help with traffic rumble if that's a problem in your recording space and I do use them in the mix to help low-end clarity but only if they're making a palpable improvement. So yes, if you have HPFs certainly try them but be advised that they have different rolloffs compared to the typical fixed band mixer EQ, those two things are not the same; simply rolling back the typical mixer channel's fixed low eq won't have the same effect as the filter switch found on some mics and mixer channels. In my experience, the cheap Behringer EQs tend to make things sound thin, I wouldn't use it if you don't need to, but if it's helping things then great.

The main thing is not to go EQin'g everything just because you can or because you read about it somewhere. Use it only if you have to and let your ears be the judge. It's very imporant also to be listening on monitors you can trust; if your monitor rig doesn't tend to translate well to the outside world it's even more important to be really prudent with EQing since it becomes much more likely that you could make an unnecessary EQ adjustment.
 
I fall into the group that will EQ on the way in - especially if you aren't going to have control of the separate tracks afterwards.

I think high passing at 50hz and down (maybe up to 80-100hz) on all non low end tracks (i.e. everything but kick and bass) will help take the "blanket" off your mix. Being judicious with that 200hz-ish area and 1khz-ish helps as well I find... gotta make space for everyone to fit or you're going to get wash.

I think if you're gonna go 2 track for the kit you have to get your panning, eq and compression right on the way in. Of course getting your mics set up as best you can first is a must but after that I wouldn't be shy about doing what you need to make sure the drums sound good. Get that kick pumping and that snare cutting through and you're good!
 
I haven't had to bounce/sub-mix tracks to make room for others...in a very long time, so I don't concern myself as much about that, but for just the drum kit, I'm still of the belief that if the OP can get a nice sound with the mics, he may not need to do a heck of a lot of EQing on the way in.
I think if anything, he will need to consider levels, mic placement and the position of the drums in the stereo image more so, and if he can get that stuff to "meld" the right way...a well tuned kit in a decent (even basic) room should just go down pretty straight up.

Of course...a little rolling off here or there with the EQ to help it all meld, might be part of the process, but just so he understands that there is no requirement to apply EQ as a standard SOP of that whole process.

For me...EQing on the way in might happen if there's either a problem with something that can't be fixed without the EQ...or if I really gotta shape the tone in a very specific way, mostly for an effect and not for correcting the EQ balance.
I just like hearing the whole mix before I start messing with EQ.
Sometimes during tracking even if things sound a bit unbalanced EQ-wise...I'll just let 'em go, and keep working on other tracks. I won't sit there trying to make it all sound good just for the sake of a cue mix...unles something is really sticking out nasty-like, but I do take note of what is what, and I'm already starting to consider what I might change come mix time.
 
You mention using high pass filters and rolling off frequencies. How exactly would I do this using the mixer and cheap equaliser that I own?
 
Even the cheapest EQs have 3-4 bands for you to adjust. If you really feel the need to roll off the low end, then go to your lowest band, set the frequency point somewhere below 100Hz (this choice is VERY audio/mix dependent, especially for low-end instruments like drums, which is why I hesitate to EQ going in)....and then roll off the desired amount.
Many mixers might have a simple LF cut (HPF) button set a particular frequency, often 80Hz, some give you 2-3 choices.

Personally, I would NOT roll off anything more than a click or two below 100Hz on the drums going in. You will be able to adjust your low end on those drum tracks during the mix. You don't want to be putting BACK what you removed during tracking.

If anything, IMO...listen to what your cymbals and HH are doing, because if that stuff is way to pesky, and you sub-mix down...then later on when you try to roll it off, you will mess with the crack of the drums, especially the snare, and you will lose the "click" of your bass drum. Messy cymbals that wash out on everything or that have harsh spikes will be a lot harder to fix on a 2-track drum mix without killing the sound.... than the very low end.

The main reason to check your low end is because of the tape deck. If it is too loud/strong, it can really drive the tape-deck electronics into distortion (some may like this), and ruin the actual tape saturation qualities...but that's only of you are pegging your meters with every drum hit. If you just record a pinch below the top of your deck's input capabilites...then I still say, no real need to roll a lot of LF off.

That whole LF cut (HPF) stuff was/is mainly aimed at removing floor/mic rumble from getting into the signal...like if your mic stands are on a resonant wooden floor, and every time you take step, it gets transmitted to the mic via the floor. stand, cable...etc, but IMO, if you are recording low-end instruments...then don't cut the low end during tracking unless there really is some obvious problem.
 
My mixer only has treble, swept mid and thirdly, bass.
Thanks for advice.
 
So what frequencies can you pick with the bass control...or does it just say "bass" with no frequency choices?

If it just has "treble/mid/bass" knobs...you can do more harm than good with that EQ.
 
The "bass" EQ is probably fixed at some frequency somewhere between 80-125hz. The "treble" is probably 10 or 12khz. As miroslav and I have both explained, take care with fixed hi and lo EQs like that. It will be very easy to do bad things your signal using any more than a couple dB in either direction with those and that's only if you really, really have to.

You shouldn't really have to. Again, the best way to "EQ" your signal on the way in is to move the mic or change the instrument for something that works better or both. Anything beyond that is going to be a band-aid, no pun intended.

What range does your swept mid EQ have? If you *must* use EQ on the way in, that's probably going to be the band to use.
 
For rock/pop ideally you want at least 4 tracks for drums. It's best if the kick and snare each have their own mic and track for initial recording. Mic the kick as close and as dry as possible for the room. Close-mic the snare as well. Then the rest of the kit with two overheads initially panned fully odd/even, for example tracks 1 & 2 fully right and left, snare on 3 and kick on 4. You can then bounce the four drum tracks to two tracks while fine tuning, stereo placement, EQ, reverb, etc for the snare, kick and two tracks of the overall kit. Center the kick and snare. You can narrow the soundstage of the kit as you wish by panning as you bounce.

Now you have a stereo drum mix on two tracks and the rest are free to record other instruments. The drums are going to sound different in the mix after everything else is recorded of course, but you can still tweak the stereo drum mix with EQ and overall reverb to a degree even after the drums are blended together. Go easy though...the tightest, puchiest, most powerful kick tracks are basically dry. You can add a bit of shimmery verb to a final mix without the kick or bass muddying things up by high-pass filtering the effect send so little to none of the low freqs will reach the effects processor.

This is how I’ve usually recorded drums whether micing a live kit or using a drum machine. The only difference is with drum machines synced to tape I can mix after everything else is recorded for a bit more tweakability in the final mix. IMO a mic on every piece in the kit is overkill, but the snare and kick should generally be treated separately.

Oh... almost forgot. The best use of EQ while tracking drums is to tune out frequencies you don't want. For example, attenuating the frequency ranges on the respective channels for the kick and snare that help isolate them from the rest of the kit. Roll of the highs for the kick and the low-lows and high-highs for the snare while tracking.
 
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miroslav said:
I haven't had to bounce/sub-mix tracks to make room for others...in a very long time, so I don't concern myself as much about that, but for just the drum kit, I'm still of the belief that if the OP can get a nice sound with the mics, he may not need to do a heck of a lot of EQing on the way in.
I think if anything, he will need to consider levels, mic placement and the position of the drums in the stereo image more so, and if he can get that stuff to "meld" the right way...a well tuned kit in a decent (even basic) room should just go down pretty straight up.

Of course...a little rolling off here or there with the EQ to help it all meld, might be part of the process, but just so he understands that there is no requirement to apply EQ as a standard SOP of that whole process.

For me...EQing on the way in might happen if there's either a problem with something that can't be fixed without the EQ...or if I really gotta shape the tone in a very specific way, mostly for an effect and not for correcting the EQ balance.
I just like hearing the whole mix before I start messing with EQ.
Sometimes during tracking even if things sound a bit unbalanced EQ-wise...I'll just let 'em go, and keep working on other tracks. I won't sit there trying to make it all sound good just for the sake of a cue mix...unles something is really sticking out nasty-like, but I do take note of what is what, and I'm already starting to consider what I might change come mix time.
Click to expand...
I get what yo are saying, but he will definitely run into the problem where he needs to cut some 200hz out of the kick, but doing so will make the snare sound thin because they are all recorded together.

The answer, of course, lies in what genre of music you are recording. If it's folky, acousticy, jangly kind of stuff, you might not need much EQ at all. If it's death metal, you will need to do a ton of it on the way in.

For me, doing metal on tape, I always add high shelf on the way in because I know I'm going to need it in the mix. Adding the amount of high shelf that I need after it's recorded just brings up a ton of tape hiss with it. So I've found that, in that case, it's better to add all that on the way in just so I don't have to figure out how to get around having to add 9db of high shelf above 7k and gate out the massive amount of hiss coming for 7 channels of that.
 
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