EQ Cuts

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7string

7string

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Ok, I was chatting with a producer friend of mine about mixing acoustic guitars. He said, "Cut the mids to taste." So I replied with, "Oh, cut the mids and then bring the levels back up in the mix?" He said, "Right."

So I'm thinking this over and this is what I come up with. If I cut the mids as he said, then bring the level back up, is this NOT bringing those very same freq's that I cut BACK into the mix, thus defeating the purpose? I'm not understanding this and I think I would have an easier time figuring out the "Bob & Jenny Equation" faster... but my brain hurts.
 
7string said:
Ok, I was chatting with a producer friend of mine about mixing acoustic guitars. He said, "Cut the mids to taste." So I replied with, "Oh, cut the mids and then bring the levels back up in the mix?" He said, "Right."

So I'm thinking this over and this is what I come up with. If I cut the mids as he said, then bring the level back up, is this NOT bringing those very same freq's that I cut BACK into the mix, thus defeating the purpose? I'm not understanding this and I think I would have an easier time figuring out the "Bob & Jenny Equation" faster... but my brain hurts.
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First, I don't know why he said cut the mids to begin with...most of the sound of the acoustic guitar is in the mid-range. You need to cut/boost where the mix needs it, if at all...

Second, if you cut the mids, then boost the overall (volume) level, it's still relative, so the mids are at a lower level than the rest of the frequencies.

What are you mixing? Just two acoustic guitars?
 
danny.guitar said:
First, I don't know why he said cut the mids to begin with...most of the sound of the acoustic guitar is in the mid-range. You need to cut/boost where the mix needs it, if at all...
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I did try cutting the mids a bit as he said and it seemed to help get control of the sound. It just helped to "clean" the sound and make the guitar a bit more distinct.

danny.guitar said:
Second, if you cut the mids, then boost the overall (volume) level, it's still relative, so the mids are at a lower level than the rest of the frequencies.
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So then the highs that were originally left alone with go UP in level too? Wouldn't that be a 'bad' thing?

danny.guitar said:
What are you mixing? Just two acoustic guitars?
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It depends on the song. Sometimes it's just one acoustic track, sometimes as much as 3.
 
Was he referring to Subtractive EQ?

First boost 10-12 dbs and sweep through the mids with a narrow Q. Find the most offensive sound, then lower and cut that frequency by 2-3dbs, widening the Q to taste.

Then bring the track up in volume, if need be.

-LIMiT
 
7string said:
So then the highs that were originally left alone with go UP in level too? Wouldn't that be a 'bad' thing?
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yes, but it's all relative. What you're doing is changing the color/sound of the guitar by subtracting some of the lows. When you then raise the fader on the track you're just turning the volume up. The highs, the lows, the mids all turn up but stay relative to eachother. You still keep the same sound it's just now louder.

Now, whether or not subtracting the mids and turning up the volume of the guitar sounds good...I don't know, I'm not there to hear it.
 
Mids are a huge area in frequency range and effect with acoustic guitar. Upper mids (especially 3-4 kHz) are completely different than lower mids (350 Hz). Opposite really. So I don't agree about any kind of generalizing re the mids thing at all.

Tim
 
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yea...just find the frequencies that suck and pull them down, and find the ones that sound sweet and give them a little boost...and if there's more than 1 guitar in there, try to boost/cut in different areas on different tracks, in order to give clarity and separation. maybe even put a slight reverb on one while leaving the other dry - whatever you can think of to give the mix more spaciousness/depth
 
It could just as likely be that only the freq. you cut was 'too loud' and you might not even need to touch the original volume.
A lot of times you might be going through fixing stuff like this in one pass and end up doing a bunch of 'mixing as you go later any way right?
 
maybe the go assumed that you would already know enough about eq and the sound of the acoustic that you would know wich mids to cut...also same with what was already mention with not cutting the highs then boosting n it being a bad thing, this might be why he says cut mids then bring back up when mixing so that they are at righ level instead of the mids being to high by not cutting them before hand
 
was he hearing the track when he made the comments? In a full mix with a lot of instruments you'll probably want to filter out lows and or cut low mids on a lot of things.
 
maybe the go assumed that you would already know enough about eq and the sound of the acoustic that you would know wich mids to cut...also same with what was already mention with not cutting the highs then boosting n it being a bad thing, this might be why he says cut mids then bring back up when mixing so that they are at righ level instead of the mids being to high by not cutting them before hand
Click to expand...

It could just as likely be that only the freq. you cut was 'too loud' and you might not even need to touch the original volume.
A lot of times you might be going through fixing stuff like this in one pass and end up doing a bunch of 'mixing as you go later any way right?
Click to expand...

What? :eek:

Tim
 
All good suggestions and advice. I probably should have mentioned that the acoustic guitars in my songs are usually just strummed rhythms with electric guitars as the main guitars. And I am basically just trying to make them fit without bumping into too many other instruments. The cutting the mids thing seemed to work for me as it REALLY cleaned up the guitar sound. Maybe I should just get a better acoustic. hahaha

Thanks guys!
 
yea, "cut the mids to taste" is as general a statement as you can get.
nothing to take from it really.
 
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giraffe said:
yea, "cut the mids to taste" is as general a statement as you can get.
nothing to take from it really.
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Giving eq advice w/o hearing the track is impossible. Giving advice w/o hearing the entire mix is almost as impossible.......
 
ez_willis said:
What's the Bob & Jenny Equation?
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I was wondering if anybody would ask. It was from one of my college Algebra (I think!) classes many, many years ago.

If Bob has 4 apples and Jenny hitch-hikes to work, how many cars does it take to fill up the Ford Freeway?

There is actually an answer to this... but I'm old and I don't remember how to arrive at it or what the answer was for that matter. ;)
 
giraffe said:
yea, "cut the mids to taste" is as general a statement as you can get.
nothing to take from it really.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking he was just giving me a starting point as, you point out, it IS a general statement. After messing with this a few times I kinda think it was just his way to get those conflicting freq's out of the way of the other instruments without killing the sound of the acoustics. It's something I'm still playing with, but him knowing my mixing 'skills' I'm thinking maybe he was giving me a hint about cleaning up the individual tracks first. I haven't talked to him since that conversation so maybe I'll give him a call and throw some of these comments at him and see what he responds with.
 
7string said:
If Bob has 4 apples and Jenny hitch-hikes to work, how many cars does it take to fill up the Ford Freeway?
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That depends, how many apples Jenny had?
 
SoundofMind said:
That depends, how many apples Jenny had?
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Nowhere in the equation does Jenny have apples nor does it figure in the answer.

;)
 
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