EQ and Mixing

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Bloodsoaked

Bloodsoaked

Death Metal Freak
Do most EQ guitar and bass tracks after recorded?

I keep reading that each should be EQed so that the bass is not using the same frequency as the kick drum and the guitar is not on the same frequency as the bass, so on and so on.

How is the world do you know what intrument is using what frequency and how to EQ as to "cut" thru certin ones?

All very confusing...
 
download the voxengo span plug in. It's free, and you use it while playing, say, you're bass track only. It'll show you on a chart what frequencies the bass is depending on alot.

However, I don't usually eq guitars all that much. At least I don't eq electric guitars all that much.
 
Newbie dude said:
download the voxengo span plug in. It's free, and you use it while playing, say, you're bass track only. It'll show you on a chart what frequencies the bass is depending on alot.

Ok, I am going to d/l this when I get home and check it out. So lets say the bass track is depending on a particular frequency what would I do then? Remove those frequencies from the kick? What if the kick and bass are depending on the same frequencies? What if the guitar, vocals are there as well?


Thank you.
 
I'm curious on this topic too.

If someone more experienced could give a quick overview it would be appreciated.
 
Newbie dude said:
download the voxengo span plug in. It's free, and you use it while playing, say, you're bass track only. It'll show you on a chart what frequencies the bass is depending on alot.

However, I don't usually eq guitars all that much. At least I don't eq electric guitars all that much.
NO! It doesn't matter what your bass sound looks like!

Just record the instruments. Then listen to them. Some of the the thump of the bass will be around 100hz, there is guitar sound there, but it will just be mudd. Cut the guitar around 100hz.

The growl of the guitar will be around 500hz, the bass at the frequency is messy sounding. Cut the bass at 500hz.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

The spectrum analyser will tell you what frequencies have the most energy, but it won't tell you which ones are most important to the sound. Distorted guitars have a bunch of energy below 100hz, most of it is garbage.


Disclaimer: The frequncies in my example may or may not work in your situation with the sounds that you are dealing with. You need to listen to what frequencies are fighting each other, and which ones are the most important to the sound of the instruments.
 
Probably one of the best overviews I've read on EQ - cheers Jay.

Sorry to take this off topic a bit, but it saves making a new topic. When the mix is complete, should one create a mix down, and then master the mix down? Or should each track be treated as required?

I'm not experienced enough to even consider using a program like T-Racks yet, but I hope to pick it up when I have more experience - does one export their mixed down WAV into T-Racks to master, or does one master each file (drums, bass, guitar) seperately in T-Racks.

Call it curiosity.

Thanks in advance guys.
 
You mix it, then you master it. If you are processing the individual tracks, that's mixing. If you are processing the completed mixdown, that's mastering.
 
Bloodsoaked said:
How is the world do you know what intrument is using what frequency and how to EQ as to "cut" thru certin ones?.
Ears.

G.
 
To elaborate, insert a parametric eq. Put in a boost, about 6dB to start. Sweep the boost through the entire range of the eq. Note what freqs sound more like unwashed balls. Cut them, increase the cut and Q until the cuts sound like unwashed balls. Cut less than that. High-pass everything. Increase the HP freq until you notice it, then back off.

Remember where the balltastic frequencies are, and what they sound like. There will be a test later.

The above should be done with all the instruments up (except maybe the high-pass). If you eq soloed tracks, you get what you deserve.
 
ermghoti said:
To elaborate, insert a parametric eq. Put in a boost, about 6dB to start. Sweep the boost through the entire range of the eq. Note what freqs sound more like unwashed balls. Cut them, increase the cut and Q until the cuts sound like unwashed balls. Cut less than that. High-pass everything. Increase the HP freq until you notice it, then back off.

Remember where the balltastic frequencies are, and what they sound like. There will be a test later.

The above should be done with all the instruments up (except maybe the high-pass). If you eq soloed tracks, you get what you deserve.


um....what did he just say???
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:


So I should basicly just use a parametric EQ and start muving things around till they sound better or worse and keep it where it sounds better?
 
Bloodsoaked said:
So I should basicly just use a parametric EQ and start muving things around till they sound better or worse and keep it where it sounds better?
You are better off finding what sounds bad and cutting it.

If you take a parametric EQ and set it for a narrow bandwidth and boost it about 6db, then sweep the frequency control until you hear something crappy, muddy, pissy, whatever. Then widen the bandwidth and cut that frequency. Lather, rinse, repeat.


BTW, southsideglen is refering to my earlier post (the long one)
 
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Bloodsoaked said:
So I should basicly just use a parametric EQ and start muving things around till they sound better or worse and keep it where it sounds better?

Both Farview's post and ermghoti's post were right on the money, covering two different approaches or perspectives to the problem.

Farview's post described very good textbook general recipies for cleaning and shaping the instruments in question. Read it until you understand it inside and out.

Ermghoti described a common go-to technique used by practically every engineer at least once per project to really sweeten the sound of individual instruments. It not just "moving things around until they sound better"; there's a plan and a purpose to it. In short, you generously boost a band of parametric EQ (maybe 8-10dB should do it), and *slowly* sweep through the frequencies while playing one of your tracks back. When you find a frequency that really honks out at you when you sweep across it, center on that frequency and remove the boost and replace it with maybe 3-4dB of cut instead. This can really serve to "sweeten" the sound of a track, making it less muddy, and notching out more room for other instruments.

Follow those two posts and your mix will sound ten times better. HOWEVER, it requires paying attention and actually listening closely to the sounds coming out of your speakers. Before one can have success at mix equalization they really need to have at least a basic grasp on what the different frequency bands sound like. Being able to recognize and hear the difference between 150Hz and 400Hz or the difference between 3kHz and 6kHz (just for examples) is fundamental. It's not hard, it just requires a little practice and training. Take a night or three playing a variety of different CDs. Yeah, throw your favorite death metal band in there since that's what you do, but don't limit yourself to that. Grab one or two CDs from the categories of pop, jazz, country, classical, reggae or whatever as well.

Take some time for a cpouple of nights behind closed doors listening to these CDs closely with a 15-band (2/3rd octave) or 31-band (1/3rd octave) graphic EQ plug (or external EQ if you have one). Set the EQ to flat. As the songs play, slowly move the EQ bad sliders, one at a time starting at the left/bass side, up and down. Listen closely to the difference in sound boosting and cutting each band makes, *paying attention* to the actual color or character of the sound at that frequency. Notice what that band actually sounds like.

Do this for a few nights or so, then come back to your home recording mixes and you should discover a whole new level of understanding to what you're listening to, and your ears will suddenly be answering a lot of your EQ questions for you.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Both Farview's post and ermghoti's post were right on the money, covering two different approaches or perspectives to the problem.

Farview's post described very good textbook general recipies for cleaning and shaping the instruments in question. Read it until you understand it inside and out.

Ermghoti described a common go-to technique used by practically every engineer at least once per project to really sweeten the sound of individual instruments. It not just "moving things around until they sound better"; there's a plan and a purpose to it. In short, you generously boost a band of parametric EQ (maybe 8-10dB should do it), and *slowly* sweep through the frequencies while playing one of your tracks back. When you find a frequency that really honks out at you when you sweep across it, center on that frequency and remove the boost and replace it with maybe 3-4dB of cut instead. This can really serve to "sweeten" the sound of a track, making it less muddy, and notching out more room for other instruments.

Follow those two posts and your mix will sound ten times better. HOWEVER, it requires paying attention and actually listening closely to the sounds coming out of your speakers. Before one can have success at mix equalization they really need to have at least a basic grasp on what the different frequency bands sound like. Being able to recognize and hear the difference between 150Hz and 400Hz or the difference between 3kHz and 6kHz (just for examples) is fundamental. It's not hard, it just requires a little practice and training. Take a night or three playing a variety of different CDs. Yeah, throw your favorite death metal band in there since that's what you do, but don't limit yourself to that. Grab one or two CDs from the categories of pop, jazz, country, classical, reggae or whatever as well.

Take some time for a cpouple of nights behind closed doors listening to these CDs closely with a 15-band (2/3rd octave) or 31-band (1/3rd octave) graphic EQ plug (or external EQ if you have one). Set the EQ to flat. As the songs play, slowly move the EQ bad sliders, one at a time starting at the left/bass side, up and down. Listen closely to the difference in sound boosting and cutting each band makes, *paying attention* to the actual color or character of the sound at that frequency. Notice what that band actually sounds like.

Do this for a few nights or so, then come back to your home recording mixes and you should discover a whole new level of understanding to what you're listening to, and your ears will suddenly be answering a lot of your EQ questions for you.

G.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write such a in-depth responce, I will be reading this for a while.

What you you mean by "sweeping through the frequencies"? The paremetric EQ I have has 3 places I can click on and move, the center one will go up and down while the left and right will go only side to side. Is the side to side movement what you mean by sweeping?


Thank you...
 
Farview said:
NO! It doesn't matter what your bass sound looks like!

Just record the instruments. Then listen to them. Some of the the thump of the bass will be around 100hz, there is guitar sound there, but it will just be mudd. Cut the guitar around 100hz.

The growl of the guitar will be around 500hz, the bass at the frequency is messy sounding. Cut the bass at 500hz.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

The spectrum analyser will tell you what frequencies have the most energy, but it won't tell you which ones are most important to the sound. Distorted guitars have a bunch of energy below 100hz, most of it is garbage.


Disclaimer: The frequncies in my example may or may not work in your situation with the sounds that you are dealing with. You need to listen to what frequencies are fighting each other, and which ones are the most important to the sound of the instruments.


Good call!

I'm one of the believers in recording naked. Get the best natural sound possible, take it down then deal with it later. If the recording sounds like the instrument, you did a good job. Pass it on to someone who knows what the heck they're doing.
 
Bloodsoaked said:
Thank you very much for taking the time to write such a in-depth responce, I will be reading this for a while.

What you you mean by "sweeping through the frequencies"? The paremetric EQ I have has 3 places I can click on and move, the center one will go up and down while the left and right will go only side to side. Is the side to side movement what you mean by sweeping?


Thank you...
What do the upand down , side to side thing say? What are they called?

You should have gain (boost or cut) that should be self explanitory
frequency This picks the frequency that you are cutting or boosting with the gain control
and bandwidth (or Q) This sets how much of the frequencies around the one you selected will be effected. A narrow bandwidth won't affect much around the center frequency, a wide band width will affect the sound for a couple octaves in either direction.
 
Farview said:
What do the upand down , side to side thing say? What are they called?

You should have gain (boost or cut) that should be self explanitory
frequency This picks the frequency that you are cutting or boosting with the gain control
and bandwidth (or Q) This sets how much of the frequencies around the one you selected will be effected. A narrow bandwidth won't affect much around the center frequency, a wide band width will affect the sound for a couple octaves in either direction.


I am attaching a screen shot of the Parimetric EQ I have. You can go here: http://magnus.smartelectronix.com and see more on it as well. It is called: "NyquistEq Paragraphic eq". THis is the only one I have ever used. I amot sure what the up/down, side/side things are. From the attached screen shot you can see the different colors and how they move. There is nothing else on the plug in that says anything.

Peter
 

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Bloodsoaked said:
What you you mean by "sweeping through the frequencies"? The paremetric EQ I have has 3 places I can click on and move, the center one will go up and down while the left and right will go only side to side. Is the side to side movement what you mean by sweeping?
I honestly don't know how to help someone who has been here for six months already and doesn't even know what a parametric EQ is. You have a lot more basic studying to do, son. You need to learn what the basic tools *are* before you can learn specific techniques in using them.

G.
 
ermghoti said:
The above should be done with all the instruments up (except maybe the high-pass). If you eq soloed tracks, you get what you deserve.

Very true, however something I find useful is if 2 tracks are fighting with one another, to solo them both together so I can hear what's going on a little more clearly. This is probably the norm goes without saying however and I'm probably just stating the obvious so...move along, nothing to see here... :D
 
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