Encouragement

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sonic Idiot
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Sonic Idiot said:
Anyone equiped with at least a PIII computer, a $99 EMU sound card, a $99 SP B1, a $175 RNC compressor and a $59 Art Pre can record music that ranks in listenability amongts the "greatest" recordings ever made.

Home Recording Idiots Unite! The New World of Audio belongs to us.
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i digress and apologise. I, as well, left the topic.

Sonic Idiot.....you are not one. This is a valid and acceptable statement. And, accurate.

When playing back tracks, if all you need to touch is the volume and the pan, then it's time to get on with the next hot jam.

What goes in comes out. Todays gear in the consumer market is already way ahead of us. And very capable indeed.
 
Thank you, lexdrummer, for bringing back the initial topic. And nice recording you've been posting about today.

I had forgotten about the topic myslef...it was much more militant then, actually. Let me reiterate:

The art of recording finally belongs to recording artists.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
Thank you, lexdrummer, for bringing back the initial topic. And nice recording you've been posting about today.

I had forgotten about the topic myslef...it was much more militant then, actually. Let me reiterate:

The art of recording finally belongs to recording artists.
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POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

Lets not forget either. Not every band, in fact very few, recorded their work on microphones priced over $500 of todays' dollars. The band Boston recorded a HUGE percentage of their still selling today records with sm57's and re20's.

And we smoke their dynamic range alone by 30 decibels using an affordable computer.
 
cheap shit

I used to want to have all the same equipment as the musicians had in the 60s so i could make my recordings sound "classic". Because i love classics of any kind. But then i realized im just a dork in a room with dork equipment and dork ideas. So now im proud to sound like what i am. Im proud to be ignorant of the high end polished side of the music "business". Because its bullshit. Have you ever seen an old balding man sitting in his expensive sports car? I dont want to be the musical equivalent of that. Rich as shit, tons of stuff, but still just a pissed old man feeling more and more empty every day. Constantly needing more expensive stuff to make me feel like i finally "arrived" in my life sounds like a living hell.
 
planetorange said:
I used to want to have all the same equipment as the musicians had in the 60s so i could make my recordings sound "classic". Because i love classics of any kind. But then i realized im just a dork in a room with dork equipment and dork ideas. So now im proud to sound like what i am. Im proud to be ignorant of the high end polished side of the music "business". Because its bullshit. Have you ever seen an old balding man sitting in his expensive sports car? I dont want to be the musical equivalent of that. Rich as shit, tons of stuff, but still just a pissed old man feeling more and more empty every day. Constantly needing more expensive stuff to make me feel like i finally "arrived" in my life sounds like a living hell.
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wooooooooo. very deep man. I agree. Go natural. Go original...
 
Sonic Idiot said:
OneRoomStudios

I hear what your'e saying, I don't want to insult people who have paid dues. I don't want to take away from anyone. I think the blanket terms like professional simply do not apply, however, to this discussion.

We disagree on one main thing: In this field, I believe, you are a recording professional the moment you state it. There is no criteria you have to meet, no test you have to pass, no license you must renew. Now, you might be the worst recording professional on the planet (after all, someone has to have that title). Either way, your value as a "recording professional" will be vindicated by market forces.

OneRoom (and I ask because I DO want to know your take on this): At what point, in your thinking, can one call himself a professional?

(I've just searched out some stuff of interest, to be my own Devil's Advocate:)

http://www.aes.org/info/member_class.html

http://www.spars.com/public/pages/index.cfm?pageid=52
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There is one main point you are overlooking. A true professional is one who makes his living providing recording services to the *industry*. The *industry* is professional media and entertainment companies. The professional recording engineer will have plenty of recordings and examples of their work available from T.V. programming, Movies, Commercial released albums, Radio etc. Anyone who calls themselves professional without some level of commercial released product is not a professional by definition. Just because someone earns his living recording local bands does not make him/her a professional recording/mix engineer.
 
acorec said:
There is one main point you are overlooking. A true professional is one who makes his living providing recording services to the *industry*. The *industry* is professional media and entertainment companies. The professional recording engineer will have plenty of recordings and examples of their work available from T.V. programming, Movies, Commercial released albums, Radio etc. Anyone who calls themselves professional without some level of commercial released product is not a professional by definition. Just because someone earns his living recording local bands does not make him/her a professional recording/mix engineer.
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If you make a living at it, you *are* in that industry. That's what the word means. To be industrious is to be busy making a living. If you make a living at it, you're a professional. You profess this as a career.
 
"Anyone who calls themselves professional without some level of commercial released product is not a professional by definition. Just because someone earns his living recording local bands does not make him/her a professional recording/mix engineer."

Certinaly, I overlooked this because it's your personal definition. Now that I know how you personally define a recording professional, let me be clear: I do not fit your definition, yet I am entirely a recording professional. You don't have to agree or believe it, but it's true. If you think I'm lying, I encourage you to call the authorities and report my activity to the proper association, which will certainly take legal action to prevent me from fraudulently practicing recording.
 
PhilGood said:
If you make a living at it, you *are* in that industry. That's what the word means. To be industrious is to be busy making a living. If you make a living at it, you're a professional. You profess this as a career.
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Let me try to put this in context here. One poster said that there were no licensing or other organizations that regulate the professional recording industry. There is. By default, the professional engineers that are defined as *professional* cater to the professional industry and are sought out by the industry. I really don't think that the "professional" engineer that makes his sole money on local bands are going to be called by Sony, Fox TV, or any top radio station for work anytime soon. That is why professional studios list their clientele. It is so the potential client can review wrok that was done by the studio and what *level* that work is used for. It is called "intended use" and any intended use in commercial product defines professional service.

So, by default, the studios and engineers are labelled professional and are sort of regulated by the commercial industry as a whole. You get work from them, you certainly are (and have to be) professional or you have no work and no work = close doors.

Professional does NOT mean that you derive your sole income from any act or work. A landscaper who cuts grass and plows snow is not a professional ever. A landscaper that designs and consults for clients *is* a professional.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
"Anyone who calls themselves professional without some level of commercial released product is not a professional by definition. Just because someone earns his living recording local bands does not make him/her a professional recording/mix engineer."

Certinaly, I overlooked this because it's your personal definition. Now that I know how you personally define a recording professional, let me be clear: I do not fit your definition, yet I am entirely a recording professional. You don't have to agree or believe it, but it's true. If you think I'm lying, I encourage you to call the authorities and report my activity to the proper association, which will certainly take legal action to prevent me from fraudulently practicing recording.
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You are not a recording professional. A professional by definition is one who has professional credentials. These credetials come from commercial sources.


Here is 1 resume of a pro:
I worked in my home studio for 5 years.
I recorded bands such as: Boxer, Short Circuit, Johnny Flame etc.



How about this:
I worked with Ozzy, Aerosmith, Michal Jackson, Pat Benitar etc.
3 Gold Records, 1 Grammy



These two guys have a world of difference and you would be a joke compared to guy #2. Steve Albini is a professional, Fletcher is a professional, you are not.

Argue all you want. My definition is one that I formulated working in this buisiness for 25 years. The only home studio that I would ever call professional belongs to Tom Schultz of Boston. I have been there and it is quite impressive, and no, he has no chinese mics.
 
acorec said:
Let me try to put this in context here. One poster said that there were no licensing or other organizations that regulate the professional recording industry. There is. By default, the professional engineers that are defined as *professional* cater to the professional industry and are sought out by the industry. I really don't think that the "professional" engineer that makes his sole money on local bands are going to be called by Sony, Fox TV, or any top radio station for work anytime soon. That is why professional studios list their clientele. It is so the potential client can review wrok that was done by the studio and what *level* that work is used for. It is called "intended use" and any intended use in commercial product defines professional service.

So, by default, the studios and engineers are labelled professional and are sort of regulated by the commercial industry as a whole. You get work from them, you certainly are (and have to be) professional or you have no work and no work = close doors.

Professional does NOT mean that you derive your sole income from any act or work. A landscaper who cuts grass and plows snow is not a professional ever. A landscaper that designs and consults for clients *is* a professional.
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Let me put it into context:

pro·fes·sion·al Audio pronunciation of "professional" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-fsh-nl)
adj.


1. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
2. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.



I'm a professional IT person, but I don't work for Cicso, Microsoft, Apple, Sun, or any program company. I'm a professional none the less!
 
Yes, I am a professional.

Grammy's don't make you a professional.

Was Van Gough a professional? He barely made a dime off his work, which was mostly rejected.

You keep sying, "by definition," but there is no definition of "professional" in the recording industry that is universally agreed upon. You can have your opinion, but it's as worthy as mine. Your power to unmake me a professional is equal in my power to make myself one simply by stating it.
 
PhilGood said:
Let me put it into context:

pro·fes·sion·al Audio pronunciation of "professional" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-fsh-nl)
adj.


1. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
2. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.



I'm a professional IT person, but I don't work for Cicso, Microsoft, Apple, Sun, or any program company. I'm a professional none the less!
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You work for a company that has some *commercial* endeavors. You were chosen for employment for your expereince and intellectual work based on some credentials. You have education (which is a credential) and you demonstrate that you are competent (have worked in your field professionally for professioanl entities).

The only way to ferret out the true audio professional is to chose someone who has the proper experience, education and has demonstrated their professional abilities by examples of accepted work. All movie soundtracks, recorded albums and radio audio recordings have serious standards that you have to know.You can't just accept an assignment and go make a record without fully understanding how the final product has to be packaged. No home reccer understands how to set levels, mix for pre-mastering or surround sound/movie track engineering principles unless they have experience in a commercial, professional studio. The AES is one organization that dictates these standards. Commercial product in any profession IS the standard that judges any person as being professional. You are seriously unlikely to work in your IT job without *professional* credentials. Think of released, commercial recordings on your resume' being the same as getting your education in IT and working for *credible* clients.


I do IT at home all the time. I charged some people to do their IT jobs in their homes. So, I am a professional IT person just like you. If I sent my resume' on being an IT professional to your company, will I get a job?

They would ball it up and pitch it in the trash.

Enough said. I still don't think that Steve Albini will be calling this guys (or any home reccer or "professional" with no commercial examples) any time soon or ever.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
If you think I'm lying, I encourage you to call the authorities and report my activity to the proper association, which will certainly take legal action to prevent me from fraudulently practicing recording.
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Mr. Idiot,

Give up the "governing body" thing. You are inventing this stuff. If you are a professional recording engineer, then I guess I'm a professional computer programmer. I know little or nothing about computer programming, but (a) I have declared myself a professional; and (b) there is no governing body for computer programmers. Right? Let's see, what else am I? I'm a professional chef! I have a hard time making toast without burning it, but I hereby declare that I am a professional chef! And I specialize in Fench cuisine! It is so because I declare it! And I'm a professional mountain climber! And a professional stamp collector! And a professional barber! And a professional auto mechanic! And a professional swimmer! Hmm, what else?
 
ACOREC,
That's a bit elitist, isn't it? Maybe we need a sub category like "Industry recognized Professional", a term I believe I've heard before. A professional house painter is someone who paints houses for a living, and he doesn't have to be called to paint the White House to deserve that title, he only needs to paint Joe Schmoe's house, and John Doe's, etc., with house painting as his primary source of income. There are certified professionals, largely in situations where non-expertise can be dangerous or extremely costly to someone, but otherwise I think within the confines of the English language, you are going to have to share your title of professional engineer with your less illustrious colleges.

Cheers,
RD CNPAE (certified non-professional audio engineer)
 
Robert D said:
ACOREC,
That's a bit elitist, isn't it? Maybe we need a sub category like "Industry recognized Professional", a term I believe I've heard before. A professional house painter is someone who paints houses for a living, and he doesn't have to be called to paint the White House to deserve that title, he only needs to paint Joe Schmoe's house, and John Doe's, etc., with house painting as his primary source of income. There are certified professionals, largely in situations where non-expertise can be dangerous or extremely costly to someone, but otherwise I think within the confines of the English language, you are going to have to share your title of professional engineer with your less illustrious colleges.

Cheers,
RD CNPAE (certified non-professional audio engineer)
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OK. I buy this, but, please tell me who the "industry" is?
 
Ok, first, if Albinin never calls me it will be too soon. I couldn't stand to be around a guy that wears that hat all day.

Also, yes, you are professional chef if you declare yourself one. It's really simply guys. This concept is easy to grasp. There is no universaly accepted definition of a professional chef. There is no universally accepted definition of a "recording professional". There just isn't. THERE IS NO DEFINITION. I'll repeat that one more time. THERE IS NO DEFINITION.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
Ok, first, if Albinin never calls me it will be too soon. I couldn't stand to be around a guy that wears that hat all day.

Also, yes, you are professional chef if you declare yourself one. It's really simply guys. This concept is easy to grasp. There is no universaly accepted definition of a professional chef. There is no universally accepted definition of a "recording professional". There just isn't. THERE IS NO DEFINITION. I'll repeat that one more time. THERE IS NO DEFINITION.
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Umm....actually there is international accreditation for being a chef. No penalties for calling yourself one, but don't lie about being accredited.

I like your spirit, though. :)
 
Robert D said:
..." largely in situations where non-expertise can be dangerous or extremely costly to someone..."
RD CNPAE (certified non-professional audio engineer)
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Can a non-professional (IE: someone who has no experience recording and delivering a product for the professional commercial industry) not cost a client alot of money (in both services that are sub-par and lost time that can potentially cost many times more) ?

"Someone" that loses money can be the local band that wanted a "professional" sounding record for some gigs that would pay them some great money and lost the gig because the product was not on par with what the club manager hears on the radio or his favorite CDs.

The band payed their money to some professional engineer and got a pretty bad sounding record. This happens all the time. The definition of a professional as the industry sees it is one who can create and deliver a product that is in the same standards as their peers and who's services have been used by credible sources. Recording a bunch of garage bands does not qualify one as a professional because the next band will get the same incompetent product as the last band. I fail to see what the argument is here. Every single one on this BBS would love nothing more than to have any recorded stuff they did on the radio, TV, in a movie or released by a major (or minor) commercial record company. The ONLY criteria for any engineer, studio, or piece of equipment is the results that they produce. If Steve Albini used a certain pre-amp. people buy it in droves. Why?

Because these Steve Albini is a professional who has demonstrated his ability, competency and finished product to credible sources. Why else would anyone care? Go to any studio website, would you hire them with a long list of credits and not one single client you have never heard of, or can't buy to see if you like their work?

Any further arguing over this point is just not useful. The Law trade has the "bar" and licensing requirements to lend competency and credibility to the professional lawyer, they create trust in people's eyes. Music industry has past product bought and patronised by credible clients to gain that same trust. I am not saying that you have to have last week's top ten CD to be credible, but you should have some commercial product behind you such as local radio, T.V, or bands that have actually sold more albums than they have friends. If you open the yellow pages in your area and search for Professional Recording Studios, I can assure you that you will not find a home studio owner and the first thing they will show you is their list of credits.
 
ROblows said:
Mr. Idiot,

Give up the "governing body" thing. You are inventing this stuff. If you are a professional recording engineer, then I guess I'm a professional computer programmer.
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If you say you are, who am I to say you are not? And who will force you to relinquish your title? I'm not inventing anything. Anyone, however, who insists there is a strict definition of a "recording professional" is inventing something.

And, again, I'm not trying to insult people. I'm sure Albini and his stupid, smelly hat could care less about definitions. (I would define his hat, however, as "stupid and smelly").
 
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