emg vs. seymour duncan?

Sonixx said:
What... uh...

The pickup's frequency response and gain has just as much to do with sustain as does the guitar body and design. Sounds as though you've not played many pickups at high amp gain settings.
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Pickups don't have nearly as much to do with sustain as the body woods and the design of the instrument. I build neck through guitars, and even at low gains, they sustain for a long time. Having a solid connection to the wood, and having a piece of wood which can vibrate in sympathy with itself, is far more important to sustain than any other factor. That is why hard tail Strats sustain longer than trem Strats, and why Les Paul’s beat the snot out of Strats. They have a more solid connection. A solid connection transfers vibration cleanly, allowing a sort of feedback response. A less solid connection (such as a bolt on neck, instead of a set neck or neck through design) will not pass vibration efficiently, and will dampen the sustain.

I used to use a Seymour Duncan Jazz as my bridge pickup when playing loud and distorted, because you could actually hear the notes. I could play chords, and still hear the chord. And it sustained just as well as my other bolt on necks, which all have higher gain pickups. The pickup makes a big difference in the sound, but not the sustain. The main thing a pickup can do to sustain is rob it, and even that is only if it is set too close to the strings. If they are too close, they pull on the strings (magnets and metal, don't you know), which kills your sustain.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Re: Re: Re: emg vs. seymour duncan?

Sonixx said:
I agree that an ALNICO in the neck can be great... but I'd put a Ceramic in the bridge for Distortion... since you're comparing to an EMG. IMO the ALNICO bridge may be to soft and doesn't have the edge of the Ceramic.
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I absolutely love the Pearly Gates for high gain stuff. It will only sound like Billy Gibbons if you can play like him, and if you use his amps and all that. I have played it through a whole bunch of amps, on a couple of different guitars, and it rocks. It is not the highest gain pickup out there, but it sounds amazing.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: emg vs. seymour duncan?

Light said:
I absolutely love the Pearly Gates for high gain stuff. It will only sound like Billy Gibbons if you can play like him, and if you use his amps and all that. I have played it through a whole bunch of amps, on a couple of different guitars, and it rocks. It is not the highest gain pickup out there, but it sounds amazing.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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you missed my point totally... dumass is asking about EMG vs Duncans and playing Punk... I don't think Billy quite had the punk thing going... nor the EMG thing...

sounds amazing is like stating great distortion... totally in the ears of the beholder... case in point, amazing tone to me isn't Billy Gibbons.

You're not listening to what dumass is asking... he's asking for really heavy distortion and a lot of gain, and generally you don't get that from ALNICO's.
 
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Light said:
Pickups don't have nearly as much to do with sustain as the body woods and the design of the instrument. I build neck through guitars, and even at low gains, they sustain for a long time...
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You should read your previous post... Although I generally agree with this.

Light said:
Pickups don't really have all that much to do with sustain.
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This just isn't true...

You may build guitars, good deal... I've been playing for over Thirty Years and setup and repaired a ton of guitars over the years. I may not build them, but my experience tells me that pickups can make a big difference in sustain. They're definitely not to the level that you discount them...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: emg vs. seymour duncan?

Sonixx said:
you missed my point totally... dumass is asking about EMG vs Duncans and playing Punk... I don't think Billy quite had the punk thing going... nor the EMG thing...

sounds amazing is like stating great distortion... totally in the ears of the beholder... case in point, amazing tone to me isn't Billy Gibbons.

You're not listening to what dumass is asking... he's asking for really heavy distortion and a lot of gain, and generally you don't get that from ALNICO's.
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Ahh, but punk is exactly what I like those pickups for. Not, I will admit, the Sex Pistols type of punk, but definitely for Nirvana or Pearl Jam. Very versatile, and very cool. Not Billy Gibbons unless you PLAY like Billy Gibbons, which I can't do. Besides, most punk players are not playing at supper high gain, but more of a crunchy distortion, which is exactly what those pickups do well. They also can do the Vernon Reed supper ridiculous distortion very well. A lot of those ceramic magnet pickups just become lost in the noise, which sucks.

Now, I will grant you that good punk is a very local thing. Almost no good punk bands make it local. I went to college in Boston, and that is the punk scene I am most knowledgeable. The scene there is colored by the fact that many of the players are out of Berklee (I know, educated punk musicians is not the norm, but it makes for some cool shit). Most of the guys I know out there playing punk are using stock seventies Les Pauls, which have (you guessed it) alnico magnets.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
a nice example of the kind of sound i am looking for would be something like midtown or finch or rufio. thats in the neighborhood of the kind distortion that i'm looking for...maybe a lil more..

i've also been checkin out the tone zone. so please give me ur opinion of the following pickups:

Dimarzio x2n
dimarzio tone zone
Seymour duncan JB
Emg 81
EMG HZ
 
dumass said:
Dimarzio x2n
dimarzio tone zone
Seymour duncan JB
Emg 81
EMG HZ
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I have not spent much time listening to the Dimarzios, but they make excellent pickups. We carry them, and I sell a few of them every year (not many, but a few). We can usually find what we want in the Seymour Duncan line, and we just have a bias towards them. It is not a slam against Dimarzio, but you kind of fall into patterns of thought and habits.

I have already given you my opinion of the JB, a great pickup.

If you like the EMG thing, the 81 would be a fine choice, but remember you can not use it with other pickups, only other EMG active pickups. I would also point out that there is an electrical interaction which happens between a passive pickup and an amp. It is one of the main reasons why guitars sound better when you don't use effects pedals. It is an electrical thing to do with impedenence, and it is a very good thing. You will not get this with an active pickup. One of the things you will find is that the people who use EMGs almost always have huge racks of gear. EMGs are well made, and I don't want to come off like I don't respect their quality. It is just one more thing to keep in mind.

Historically, EMGs attempts at passive pickups, such as the HZ, have been disappointing. Now, I do not know about the HZs in particular, but their track record on passives is not very good.

None of the bands you mentioned (from what I can tell from a couple of short sample MP3s) is a high gain type of distortion group. Not at all like the "nu-metal" guys, for instance. I would definitely shy away from EMGs, as I don't think they have the attitude you are after (which matters more than tone or technique in that stuff).

The real problem is, the only person who will be able to figure it out which one is right for you, is YOU. The only way to really know for sure is to try them all, which is (obviously) not very easy or cheap with pickups. The best thing I can say is, find a store with some of the pickups you want to try, and listen. This is going to be difficult with pickups, but it is the best thing to do. The real problem is, there is almost no store in the world (if any) who is going to let you exchange pickups, for obvious reasons. Which is, of course, why you are here asking your question. Pick the one which seems right, and get it. You might try to find out what some of your favorite players use, and use that as a jumping off point.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I've been reading this thread since it was posted.I don't know much about the other pickups,but I'll give a big two thumbs up for the JB pickup.
I had one installed in a guitar of mine and it immediately became my favorite guitar.:cool:
 
do you kno if the JB sounds similar to the hot rails? i have that in my squier strat and i like the tone...but it doesnt sound crunchy enough and give me enough sustain. but this maybe because of the guitar itself, so thats why i'm kinda shying away from them. plus i'm kinda interested in the Dimarzio tone zone.
 
For the type of music you are playing, it soundslike the 81 is the way to go.


By the way, I agree with that guy about the Pearly Gates being a really good pickup and all, but the EMG would be your best bet.


For some reason, I don't like Dimarzios. They sound too synthy to me, but everyone else seems to love them. Why?
 
dumass said:
do you kno if the JB sounds similar to the hot rails? i have that in my squier strat and i like the tone...but it doesnt sound crunchy enough and give me enough sustain. but this maybe because of the guitar itself, so thats why i'm kinda shying away from them. plus i'm kinda interested in the Dimarzio tone zone.
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No, the JB and the Hot Rails sound nothing alike. The Hot Rails is really intended more for country and soul music, (for the most part), so it is a very clean, bright pickup. The JB was designed with Jeff Beck (though it would only sound like him if you played like him), who is a distortion guy for sure. It is also a full width humbucker, so it picks up more of the string, which gives it more balls (so to speak) than a Hot Rails.
The Hot Rails was designed to be competition for the Joe Barden pickups, which are most popular for country musicians. Twang and bright are what they are after with the Hot Rails. If your experience with the Hot Rails is the only reason you are not going for the JB, then the JB is your pickup. They are made by the same manufacturer, but they sound nothing like one another. Now, I assume there are other reasons, but put that issue out of your mind.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
try bill lawrence instead

i've had both emg's and duncans (custom, jb, lil 59) and emg SA and 85 humbuckers.....

the bill lawrence pickups win hands down.

price is better.

you'll have to order them and wait a bit though......
 
I had a Tone Zone in my strat and decided I didn't like the sound so I replaced it with a SD Pearly Gates. Sounds awesome.

I ended up putting the Tone Zone in a cheap OLP that I have in the bridge position and a Super Distortion in the Neck and I love the combination - in that guitar !

If you go to the Seymour Duncan site and the Dimarzio site there are sound bytes that you can download to get an idea of how they sound..

P.S - I've listened to Gonzo's stuff and if you can get the Bill Lawrence's it sounds like it would be worth it !
 
musicsdarkangel said:
For some reason, I don't like Dimarzios. They sound too synthy to me, but everyone else seems to love them. Why?
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I like 'em because they sound thicker than Seymours. I dropped a Pearly Gates and a FRED in a project axe of mine, and the Fred absolutely blows the PG away in terms of tone. The PG wasn't bad, but it wasn't what I was looking for.
 
He is right about the Lawrence pickups to a certain extent.......a very certain extent.


The only non-thin Lawrence pickup IMO is the L500, and it is amazing.


Get an L500, otherwise, don't get a Lawrence at all, IMO they sound very thin (with the exception of the single coils). Also they have an XL500, which is worse then the L500 IMO because it has more highs, and sounds really noisy. You would have to get either a L500 or an XL500 depending on what pots you have in your guitar. SO, I'd recommend going to someone to find out what pots you have in your guitar, and if you don't have suitable ones for the L500, then go for the EMG. That's my advice.

Bill Lawrence.........
They are indeed cheap ($) pickups.
 
My Carvin has humbucker pickups with 22 poles each. Combine that with the solid body and I get serious sustain and excellent tone. Maybe you can order a humbucker from them and put it in your guitar.

On another note, when the Carvin came in the mail, it was already tuned. That was 10 years ago and now everytime I go to tune it, it's still already in tune. It literally has never gone out of tune. Even when I change the strings, about once every 10 days on average, once I lock the nuts it stays in tune.

Pretty scary huh?
 
musicsdarkangel said:
You would have to get either a L500 or an XL500 depending on what pots you have in your guitar.
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So does this mean the L500 with 250K pots and the XL500 with 500K pots or vice versa? I am toying with the idea of trying a BL pup but am worried about when people say they sound trebly.
 
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