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RAMI
Guest
Thanx for the detailed message...but what does any of that have to do with how you pan the drums?????
Thanx for the detailed message...but what does any of that have to do with how you pan the drums?????
Ninja_Drummer
New member
Usually the kick and snare will be panned to the center of the mix whilest the cymbals, or the drum kit's shape and overall sound surround it.
Basically for me, try to capture an audio image in my head that for the audience, if that's what I'm aiming for, I try to give them the image of how it would sound if you were right behind the drums.
In terms of sound, this would sound something like everything surrounding you. The cymbals are going to be coming from different directions, the snare and kick are usually the loudest thing you will here (hence panning center) and all else, guitar, bass, etc. kinda become overlayed by that.
But that doesn't go to say that the drums is the only thing you hear. For me, if I can't hear the guitar, then I don't know where to go with the song as far as progression goes, same goes for the vocals. If I can't hear the bass, then I wouldn't know what rhythm I'm on, and so on.
But to sum it all up, You want the drums to set in where it will emphasize the mood of the song.
For a big, heavy, low end sounding song that involves toms. I like to pan the toms (depending on how many there are) at certain intervals so that they surround the listener, and you hear the BIG picture, not just one little piece. For example, If there are 4 toms, I would set it in intervals of maybe 15% or 25% apart, depending on how wide of a sound I want. So it would be set something like this:
tom 1:L50%
tom 2:L25%
tom 3:R25%
tom 4:R50%
So when a listener listens to the song, when the drummer does something like tom rolls, the overall sound will surround the listener.
It's hard for me to explain, but all I can say is, pan and mix to how you think the piece should sound with the drums involved, how the mood should be set in a song to me is the most important aspect to achieve. I guess in a way, it is sort of the skill, passion, and emotion the engineer puts into a mix, his own personality per se...
Basically for me, try to capture an audio image in my head that for the audience, if that's what I'm aiming for, I try to give them the image of how it would sound if you were right behind the drums.
In terms of sound, this would sound something like everything surrounding you. The cymbals are going to be coming from different directions, the snare and kick are usually the loudest thing you will here (hence panning center) and all else, guitar, bass, etc. kinda become overlayed by that.
But that doesn't go to say that the drums is the only thing you hear. For me, if I can't hear the guitar, then I don't know where to go with the song as far as progression goes, same goes for the vocals. If I can't hear the bass, then I wouldn't know what rhythm I'm on, and so on.
But to sum it all up, You want the drums to set in where it will emphasize the mood of the song.
For a big, heavy, low end sounding song that involves toms. I like to pan the toms (depending on how many there are) at certain intervals so that they surround the listener, and you hear the BIG picture, not just one little piece. For example, If there are 4 toms, I would set it in intervals of maybe 15% or 25% apart, depending on how wide of a sound I want. So it would be set something like this:
tom 1:L50%
tom 2:L25%
tom 3:R25%
tom 4:R50%
So when a listener listens to the song, when the drummer does something like tom rolls, the overall sound will surround the listener.
It's hard for me to explain, but all I can say is, pan and mix to how you think the piece should sound with the drums involved, how the mood should be set in a song to me is the most important aspect to achieve. I guess in a way, it is sort of the skill, passion, and emotion the engineer puts into a mix, his own personality per se...
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
What I meant was most commercial recordings don't even attempt to characterize the actual drum layout at all, from any perspective.
Not long ago in another thread (I think it was another thread, this thread is such a moldy oldie that has lasted too long already that I've lost track) I documented a listening test I did randomly selecting 25 cuts from a random playlist of about 400 popular stereo commercial releases from a multitude of popular genres and musical styles ranging from the mid-60s to today. Releases that were artifically re-engineered from mono masters were excluded, as were those early recordings that were made with simple L/R or L/C/R panning schemes only. Also excluded were more unconventional production genres such as hardcore blues, big band jazz, dance mixes and the like.
Over half of them had the drums panned mono only right down the center. Others had everything down the center but just the snare or just the crash panned elsewhere. Many had wild panning schemes that did not even try to resemble the actual geometric or geographic layout of the drum kit in any way whatsoever (e.g. rack tom 1 hard left, rack tom 2 hard right, all cymbals in one direction with all skins in another, etc.) The actual number of commercial releases that have any kind of quasi-realistic perspective - drummer's or audience's - are very few and quite rare.
G.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I just heard "Let it Be" by the Beatles for the first time in a long time...and I noticed that Ringo's entire kit was panned at about 1:30...like you would pan a sinlge guitar or drum, etc.
But then, on that song, ,most of the panning is unusual, with things like lead guitar panned way off to the right, and whatnot.
But then, on that song, ,most of the panning is unusual, with things like lead guitar panned way off to the right, and whatnot.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
OK, I get what you mean.
Of course any recording by it's very nature is to some degree creating an artificial soundscape. But I don't say that as a negative, rather, it means that every piece has to be approached fresh and is pregnant with possibilities. A clean slate, as it were.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I think the whole debate about drummer's or audiences perspective mostlly stems from where the Snare and/or HH are placed...L-R or R-L respectively, as those two pieces are what seems to define the perspective, of course you have to also consider if the drummer is a lefty!!! 
The rest of the drums end up going where the mixer thinks they fit best....it's all valid.
The rest of the drums end up going where the mixer thinks they fit best....it's all valid.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I agree. I was just illustrating the point that this thread assumes it's a choice between one perspective or the other, when more often than not it's neither one.
G.
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chewbacaface
New member
I have to say that I kind of hate the sound of overly mic-ed drums where every drum and every cymbal has a mic on it. I am a much bigger fan of setting up overheads in a natural stereo configuration and letting the drums decide where they pan to. I might accent the snare and the kick with individual mics but only if needed.
Bob Ross
Your god hates me
disregard...
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chewbacaface
New member
Why, because you're into Def Leopard sounding designer rock drums? That's fine. I just think that type of drum recording sounds trashy. Some of the best recordings I've heard have come off of single and double mic configurations. It's amazing how much better they sit in a mix sometimes when they aren't overdone. You should give it a try. You might surprise yourself. I used to record everything with a full on 10 mic setup but it just stopped sounding good to me. Almost no classic rock recording was done with the kind of full miced setup you see in today's studios and even though I'm relatively young, I find the overall sound of those older recordings far better than what you hear on the radio today. It's just preference.
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R
RAMI
Guest
Um.....I don't hink he was talking to you. He meant "never mind", as in...forget about what HE was going to say.
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chewbacaface
New member
Oh, well. I didn't see the comment he put on his post or the original post.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah...I don't much either liked the "designer" drum sound as you put it in your other post.
There's times when having drums really POP throughout a mix can sound good...but to have that in-your-face drum sound too much, becomes a bit tiresome on the ears, IMO, though I'm sure the drummers like it!
And it's not just the overall level used for the drums...its also that close-mic technique that causes that.
I do like you...a stereo OH pair and just spot mic on snare and kick...and then let the drums sit back in the mix a bit, as they are not generally the lead element in most Rock/Pop music....power-trios excluded.
Bob Ross
Your god hates me
No, I didn't mean "disregard" the previous post, I meant disregard what I had originally written in my post and then thought better of it and deleted.
Right, that.
How could you not have? you quoted me!
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chewbacaface
New member
I didn't realize or see the little note as to why you removed it that is written in like .6 font. That's all I meant.
beatlebum
New member
I might also point out that "mixing from a drummer's perspective" would include having the drums in the front of the mix, not amplifying the kick, and not being able to hear the rest of the band outside the bass and the lead vocals.
G.
You'd have to put in a bit of out-of-tune, wrong lyric singing in the foreground to get it bang on though!
Villain S Deeds
Member
Well, I read somewhere that some of the conoles in those days didn't have pan controls, and that's why some tracks were either hard left or hard right.
stepXinXtheXmix
New member
I tend to mix toward the drummers perspective. Not that it matters, cause i'm just beginning. But some drummers are picky about their tone, those I try to give exactly what they hear when they play. I've tried putting two condensers over the drummer's head in a XY pattern and angled it down toward the center of the 'collective sound of the drums'(top of the kick). It actually came out really cool...just mixed in everything else that lacked.
J
John California
New member
Not sure if this has been brought up. But how the ell are you supposed to air drum to a backwards drumset?
Drummers perspective. Always.
Drummers perspective. Always.