dodgeaspen
New member
Drummers perspective is the way I record. I have had some good results using the Recorderman Method.
Drummer's perspective, or audiences?
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dintymoore
Guest
I'm not sure if you mean "like a drummer hears it from the set", where the drums are actually too loud, or (assuming you mean a right handed drummer) you mean "hi hat on the left and floor tom on right".
My initial response was the latter.
I mostly put the hihat hard left and find something else like guitar or shaker to put hard right to balance it, and to me that's from a drummer's perspective.
And since I'm a drummer, even if I chose "audience", it would still be from a drummer's perspective.
My initial response was the latter.
I mostly put the hihat hard left and find something else like guitar or shaker to put hard right to balance it, and to me that's from a drummer's perspective.
And since I'm a drummer, even if I chose "audience", it would still be from a drummer's perspective.
Freudian Slip
New member
I guess I usually mix them. Hihat on the left and ride on the right, but floor tom on the left. I dont know if thats a physically possible arrangement but thats how I would set my drums if I were a drummer.
That would really mess with your drum rolls. Drum rolls ar always rolling/panning high to low away from the hi hats. If you place your floor tom next to the hi hat then there are lots of situations that would sound really odd. For instance, when a full roll on the toms rolls from right to left and then snaps back to the left at the end.
Just something to think about.
F.S.
Bob Ross
Your god hates me
+1
For that matter, unless you know who the drummer was, how can you even tell the difference between drummer's perspective and audience perspective? I've worked with a whole mess of left-handed drummers; if you heard those mixes with the hihat on the left, and you didn't know that little tidbit about the performer's orientation, would you think it was drummer's perspective? You'd probably be wrong...but what difference does it make?
Just make it fit the song. I've done projects where I started out one way, then halfway through the mix wound up reversing the perspective because it let the drumkit fit with the other elements better.
Bob Ross
Your god hates me
fwiw, a few years ago I was experimenting with what I guess you could call "bass player's perspective" ...mic'ing the drumkit from a few feet in front but also several feet off to the side (whichever side the snare/hihat are on). IOW, 30-45° off of center. This still keeps the kick centered, and the snare is still more-or-less near the center, but now the toms not only pan from One Side to the Other but also from Near to Far. Pretty cool sounding.
I haven't used that technique recently, but this thread reminded me of those sessions.
I haven't used that technique recently, but this thread reminded me of those sessions.
Bob Ross
Your god hates me
You've never listened to Mick Fleetwood, I guess?
Or Bill Bruford's last 2 or 3 Earthworks albums?
Or...
I'm exactly the same way. I'm a guitarist/vocalist that dabbles in drums every so often, but I pan the drums from the drummers perspective. Maybe it's something to do with muso's who record themselves, rather than dedicated engineers. For a deep perspective, it could be to do with feeling involved in the music, as a muso's would generally crave, then for live recordings have it feel like you're watching the band at a gig, rather than taking the music as an experience (ie studio recording). Maybe I'm on a tangent, but this makes sense to me
Its down to the engineer really..
philbagg
Just Killing Time
Someone might have already made this point but I'm not arsed reading it all
You can talk all day about - Crowd Perspective with the floor tom left and hats right, or Drummer perspective vica versa.
If it's a left handed drummer, then it flips the whole thing around doesn't it?
Will anybody (except us weirdos) notice? Of course not!! Nobody gives a sh*t!
Metallica - Creeping Death: After the intro when just one guitar plays the verse riff on its own, Lars does a simple roll from the rack toms down to the floor tom. As far as I remember, the roll runs from about 3 o clock to 9 o clock (on the speakers, not 6 hours long
), and it sounds f**king great! I doubt there's a (sane) drummer in the world who'd set up his/her toms the same way you hear them in Creeping Death, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to listen to the song for the god awful job the mix engineer has done and then hunt him down and torture him.
He's actually taught me to lighten up a little on "perspective" of the drums and do whatever sounds good. - how many times have you heard that from someone who knows what they're doing?
My 2 cents.
You can talk all day about - Crowd Perspective with the floor tom left and hats right, or Drummer perspective vica versa.
If it's a left handed drummer, then it flips the whole thing around doesn't it?
Will anybody (except us weirdos) notice? Of course not!! Nobody gives a sh*t!
Metallica - Creeping Death: After the intro when just one guitar plays the verse riff on its own, Lars does a simple roll from the rack toms down to the floor tom. As far as I remember, the roll runs from about 3 o clock to 9 o clock (on the speakers, not 6 hours long
), and it sounds f**king great! I doubt there's a (sane) drummer in the world who'd set up his/her toms the same way you hear them in Creeping Death, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to listen to the song for the god awful job the mix engineer has done and then hunt him down and torture him.He's actually taught me to lighten up a little on "perspective" of the drums and do whatever sounds good. - how many times have you heard that from someone who knows what they're doing?
My 2 cents.
I'm gonna skip through this whole thread because there's a lot of posts to catch up on for a forum noob like me.
Anyway, I'm predominantly a drummer - been playing drums for 13 years, and guitar for 9. But personally to me, for some reason, I've always loved drums to be kinda set back in the mix, with a bit of natural-sounding reverb. Metal and jazz especially. I don't like the drums to be dominant in the mix, and with zero reverb. It just sounds unnatural to me.
Take Dream Theater's "Awake" album - the drums on that sound simply amazing. I am a huge sucker for the big, atmospheric studio reverb sound. I always try to make my drums have this kind of sound (although I'm not always successful!).
That's just me, though. I know that most drummers in metal prefer the drums to be dominating, and with a crushing, energetic sound that death metal bands provide, I can understand that. But I personally prefer a more open, natural sounding mix.
Another example is Mork Gryning's self-titled album. The drums on that album have that similar, huge atmospheric sound, and those dudes are playing experimental black metal. The drums aren't as punchy, but they breathe more.
EDIT: So this means I voted for 'audience'. Kinda weird coming FROM a drummer, eh?
EDIT 2: It seems that I have kinda misunderstood the thread, haha. Maybe I should poke through it some more. I'll reply more later.
Anyway, I'm predominantly a drummer - been playing drums for 13 years, and guitar for 9. But personally to me, for some reason, I've always loved drums to be kinda set back in the mix, with a bit of natural-sounding reverb. Metal and jazz especially. I don't like the drums to be dominant in the mix, and with zero reverb. It just sounds unnatural to me.
Take Dream Theater's "Awake" album - the drums on that sound simply amazing. I am a huge sucker for the big, atmospheric studio reverb sound. I always try to make my drums have this kind of sound (although I'm not always successful!).
That's just me, though. I know that most drummers in metal prefer the drums to be dominating, and with a crushing, energetic sound that death metal bands provide, I can understand that. But I personally prefer a more open, natural sounding mix.
Another example is Mork Gryning's self-titled album. The drums on that album have that similar, huge atmospheric sound, and those dudes are playing experimental black metal. The drums aren't as punchy, but they breathe more.
EDIT: So this means I voted for 'audience'. Kinda weird coming FROM a drummer, eh?
EDIT 2: It seems that I have kinda misunderstood the thread, haha. Maybe I should poke through it some more. I'll reply more later.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
The latter two paragraphs sort of contradict the first, which for me is the essential reality of recording. However you mix a song at the end of the day, it's an artificial soundscape. I've read so much about the audiences perspective and mixing that way. But until I began reading about it, I never even thought about it. When recording first began, the object of the excercise was to faithfully capture a performance that was acoustically unaltered. Very nice. But IMO human beings are created with and possessed of imagination and a certain restlessness to push boundaries and limitations......so by the late 50s that initial recording view was already on the way out. As creativity bloomed and technology helped drive it, the artificial soundscape became the norm and it's doubtful we'll ever go back. So, given that there isn't an intrinsic right way for drums to sound and be mixed, pretty much anything goes. It may be more popular for rookies to multi-mic but tons of pros do too. It's just one of a number of ways of getting the drums in there. Some try it and pass on it, others stick with it. But as ever, when all is said and done, there's alot more said than done !Most recordings do not do drummer's perspective OR audience perspective. Most recordings build an artificial soundscape.
For those genres and mixes where multi-miking is desired (I still find it amusing that it's far more popular in the rookie ranks than it is in the pro ranks), then the point to perspective is kind of lost altogether. What's the point of doing all that seperate miking if you're just going to re-create a natural stereo image? Stick to the overheads if that's what you want to do.
(And before someone says that multi-miking gives better control over the individual drum hits, everybody already knows what my reply is: learn how to play the damn things first, and you wouldn't have to worry about "re-playing them in the CR" via editing every damn skin hit. Spend the time practicing instead of editing. It's a lot cheaper)
G.
Seriously though, it's the song that counts. When one is flying down the motorway or washing up or making love or riding the train or simply relaxing, and listening to music, who honestly notices how the drums are mixed or more to the point, who focuses on it ? We might. My mum wouldn't !!EdwardBaynes
New member
Sonic Albert es puto.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Aren't all members of an audience in a different place ?
tjsmithmusic
New member
mixing drums
If i want a Spector Wall Of Sound, I'll barely pan at all. If i want an intimate studio feel, pan hard. Want it to sound like a auditorium of big room? Pan 10/2. Depends on the production and vision
If i want a Spector Wall Of Sound, I'll barely pan at all. If i want an intimate studio feel, pan hard. Want it to sound like a auditorium of big room? Pan 10/2. Depends on the production and vision
never gave it much thought for I always end with the recording of the drums as if you where in front watching the drummer as it comes out of the speakers.
I don't know it's kind of a subliminal thing much like old western movies the bad guys would always be filmed riding across the screen from left to right while the good guys would always be filmed riding across the screen from right to left.
Must be something to it.
I don't know it's kind of a subliminal thing much like old western movies the bad guys would always be filmed riding across the screen from left to right while the good guys would always be filmed riding across the screen from right to left.
Must be something to it.
Ninja_Drummer
New member
As a drummer, I can selflessly say that I mix the drums to where its sits in right with the song. Hence why it's called "mix". If it's a regular rock, driving, rhythmetic, what have you, I like the bring out the drums a bit more. If it's a bit more ambient, or laid back, then I set the drums to where it's sort of the echo of the song, a voice in the distance per se.
I mostly do rock and driving type music, so like the common man recorder (or the standard to my knowledge), I bring out the kick little bit over the guitars, but not too much too where it's a bellowing, 'slap in yo face' dilemma. Then I bring out the snare out just little above the kick with some reduced highs so as you don't have a screeching harpy in your ear. Then I have the overheads, or cymbals in this matter, floating a little bit into the mix with the hi-hat clear on articulation.
I mostly do rock and driving type music, so like the common man recorder (or the standard to my knowledge), I bring out the kick little bit over the guitars, but not too much too where it's a bellowing, 'slap in yo face' dilemma. Then I bring out the snare out just little above the kick with some reduced highs so as you don't have a screeching harpy in your ear. Then I have the overheads, or cymbals in this matter, floating a little bit into the mix with the hi-hat clear on articulation.
adamvelvetu
New member
As a sidenote I was just listening to bringing it all back home and it sound like they probably did a pretty hard pan to the left of all the drums.