Drummer's perspective, or audiences?

[ikijapan]

It's a flawed poll taken by someone inexperienced in poll-taking, increasingly answered by those inexperienced in the topic. The results can't be taken too seriously or accurately.

G.

Actually, I think it's very dependant on the genre. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a metal release that isn't panned to the drummer's perspective. Including those done by "experienced" engineers.

If you can't air drum to the drums as if you are the drummer, the mixing engineer messed up.

 

[cusebassman]

Actually, I think it's very dependant on the genre. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a metal release that isn't panned to the drummer's perspective. Including those done by "experienced" engineers.

If you can't air drum to the drums as if you are the drummer, the mixing engineer messed up.

I'll be sure to go listen to my Metallica CDs, as I don't listen to any other metal. heehee *ducks to avoid flying objects*

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Actually, I think it's very dependant on the genre. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a metal release that isn't panned to the drummer's perspective. Including those done by "experienced" engineers.

Which supports my point. Metal is a small subset of the music genre community. You'd never know it by visiting this forum, whose current audience is represented heavily by white college-age headbangers. Any poll taken on this forum is going to be improperly skewed in that direction.

Add to that the fact that the poll is open-ended with no cutoff date. What this means is that as time goes by, more and more newcomers to recording and to this forum will be the ones answering, as most of the more experienced pros that frequent this forum would have replied to this poll weeks ago already.

Finally, the fact that the poll only gives two options, neither of which represents a majority position in commercial recorded music, unrealistically skews the results right ouut of the gate.

G.

 

[Freudian Slip]

I use drummers left as left etc. It's just easier for my brain to work with that way. Had I never sat behind a drum set I suppose I might do the opposite.
Other than that it's all technique, taste and often totaly unrealstic
I have yet to listen to a song and say whos left are they using on the drums????

F.S.

 

[MadHatterTCM]

Just food for thought.. . to those who are hard against drummer perspective.. because "no one but the drummer hears it like that" ok... valid point. For live I would prob do audience perspective but for cd, it goes out the window..

But here's some food.. munch if you will... when you stereo record a keyboard piano.. left and right.. the lower notes are panned to the left as you move to the right of the keyboard, the sound moves right... isn't this the pianist perspective? Not many people but the pianist hear that perspective, however that's how it always comes on in the mix.. unless you reverse it but that'd be unnatural to me..

 

[ofajen]

I'm sure some folks will be appalled, but I usually track drums in mono, with a single overhead omni plus perhaps a single omni out in front of the kick, mixed in to give the bass oomph. In that case, I think the question is moot. If I use two omnis overhead, I track them from my perspective (as the drummer) since I'm monitoring on phones and mix them whichever way I like best.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

when you stereo record a keyboard piano.. left and right.. the lower notes are panned to the left as you move to the right of the keyboard, the sound moves right... isn't this the pianist perspective? Not many people but the pianist hear that perspective, however that's how it always comes on in the mix.

Actually not as often as one might think. There's a whole lot of productions where the piano is tracked in stereo but mixed in mono, or the piano is simply recorded in farfield mono, or where the bass and mids are left and right with the highs down the middle (listen to some Dr. John instrumentals for interesting examples of that last one).

The assumption that piano is always mixed L-R from the pianist's perspective is about as false as the idea that drums are always mixed from the drummer's (or the audience's, FTM) perspective.

Kudos on your mono tracking of the drums, though. It's refreshing to know that there still a few drummers out there who can actually play drums well enough to track au natural .

G.

 

[Jouni]

If I mix to record, I mix drummers point of view, because it must be odd to hit something on your left and hear it from the right...
If I'd mix for an audience, I'd mix from the audience's view (mine from the mixing stand)


Fuckin' seriously, is there something to wonder??...

 

[ofajen]

Kudos on your mono tracking of the drums, though. It's refreshing to know that there still a few drummers out there who can actually play drums well enough to track au natural .

G.

I've been lucky that the drummers I've recorded or collaborated with are in that category. I don't count myself that good, but I still think my playing sounds best with that style of recording.

With my setup, a single omni overhead does a good job giving a tight, coherent sampling of my whole kit. Sometimes I also have a mike out front to give the bass a bit more oomph. Hence, the two mike method is often used. But then, I don't have to worry about whether what I do is "industry standard".

Cheers,

Otto

 

[Drumz519]

I expect that most engineers mix drums from audience perspective, as that's the way the mics are set up. There are reasons for this. If you have an overhead pair, they are set up in audience perspective. Same goes for room mics, even more so.

If you start flipping around the pan positions of the tracks that were recorded with the individual mics, the their positions no longer match where they sit in the stereo room mic tracks. Each mic on a drum kit gets a ton of bleed from the drums and cymbals nearby. If you have a cymbal crash on the right in the room mics, but panned left on it's individual track, the stereo placement is fighting itself.

There's a really easy way to solve that problem- if you're using a stereo room mic setup, flip them.

I'm surpised that people wouldn't think to do that automatically if you're mixing from the "drummer's perspective." Flipping the pan would basically turn you around.

As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the engineer/mixer's discretion. Mixes are rarely down to sound like they would live. Guitars may be panned differently, they may even automate from channel to channel. In my opinion, recordings are supposed to have the freedom of being different from a live perspective.

 

[RightOnMusic]

perhaps it would be an interesting sound to mix the close mics drummers perspective but keep the room mics audience perspective... maybe it would sound like shit though... i'll have to try it.

 

[Freudian Slip]

perhaps it would be an interesting sound to mix the close mics drummers perspective but keep the room mics audience perspective... maybe it would sound like shit though... i'll have to try it.

I vote shit But let us know

F.S.

 

[mikeh]

I started to reply before I noticed how old his thread was - but decided to comment anyway.

Drums are my main axe (although these days I play more guitar/keys) - I started mixing from the drummer perspective years ago and that now feels best - however, I really don't see the significance either way.

When I mix drums, while the hat is on the left and the floor tom is on the right (yeah I play right handed) - I don't do extreme panning on the drums so the perspective is not significantly different. As far as any other insturments, if the guitar is left and keys right (or whatever) that could be either perspective.

As a few people already pointed out - the mix should reflect more of an artificial landscape in which the mix serves the recording - if that meanz subtle panning or extreme panning - perspective is a rather secondary consideration.

 

[Chris.]

I always do drummer's perspective because I like air drumming to the tom fills.

 

[Freudian Slip]

I always do drummer's perspective because I like air drumming to the tom fills.

That's the best argument I have heard so far from either side
The one group of people who are actually affected by the descision on which prospective to use is air drummers. The rest of us can get along either way. Air drummers on the other hand are a growing minority that you'd best not chance alienating.

Luckily for those that have travled the wrong path, this can actually be fixed in mastering.

 

[nddhc]

I like drummers perspective.

And if anyone complains, ill just say I was recording someone who is left handed playing a left handed kit

 

[Jeff_B]

lol nice.

i always do the drummers perspective because i am a drummer. never thought about doing it otherwise

 

[iownrocknroll]

not I drummer though a favor drummers prospective.
In a "alt, indie, emo, rock song"

I normally do over heads and 1st and 2nd room pairs wide.
toms on a 4 piece kit around -35 and 45
snare and kick up the middle. sometime putting the overheads around -60 and 60 is nice too......makes the kit super tight.

I tend to keep my "lower" toned guitars on the left and the high cuts through nicely.

it's all relative though, i've taking my drum crush bus and added a bunch of verb to it and panned it hard right during the bridge of a song once. that was exciting.

 

[eeb]

the drummer in my band is wierd.. He plays open handed.

as in his ride and hats or on the same side.. makes it interesting anyway.

Normally though I do drummers perspective outta habit. Never even really thought about it.

 

[Seafroggys]

I'm a drummer but I do it from audience's perspective. That is, assuming a right hand drummer (which I am).

Nothing weird about playing open handed.