Doubling Acoustic Guitars

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v3nge

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Is there a way to record doubled acoustic (or even electric rhythm parts) without having them sound like shit in mono? Or should I just avoid doubling strummed acoustic parts? They always seem off when I listen back on devices like phones or laptops that play in mono, no matter how much time I spend making sure they are perfectly in time.
Thoughts?

Edit: By doubling, I mean recording a double and panning one left and one right.
Thanks!
 
Usually, the closer the two parts are to exactly the same, the weirder it's going to get. Obviously, it's going to sound pretty bad if they're way off in timing from one another, but when they're really tight they'll start to phase against each other.

Have you tried actually monitoring in mono so that you can hear the weirdness and try to adjust your playing against that?

Really, I think it's usually better to change a few things (guitar/pickup, amp/settings, mic/placement) so the two parts don't share quite the same frequency spectrum and therefor won't be so likely to interact destructively.

Better still might be to rethink what you're playing in the second track. Try inversions and maybe change up the rhythm a bit. Make that track do something different but complimentary. If you're really just looking for extra width out of the one part, there are other ways (effects, etc) to get it. If you're going to record two tracks, why not make them both actually count?
 
Big +1 to Ashcat.
The whole thing about a direct copy (physically playing the same thing twice) is that it works really well in stereo but sounds weird in mono.
Same with vocals..guitars..etc.

If collapsing to mono is a concern, try a different guitar, amp, chord inversion, pick rhythm...Whatever works. :)
 
If you somehow think you need left and right, I'd certainly explore this;

"Better still might be to rethink what you're playing in the second track. Try inversions and maybe change up the rhythm a bit. Make that track do something different but complimentary. If you're really just looking for extra width out of the one part, there are other ways (effects, etc) to get it. If you're going to record two tracks, why not make them both actually count"?

I'd be playing a complimentary noodle. But I just leave it MONO and worry about layering and placement. I'm not thinking of any Left/right playing that ever did anything for me outside of two players doing a Simon and Garfunkel.

Seriously, get a jam mate
 
Thanks for the great advice, everyone! Very helpful. I recorded the song in question on a Taylor and an Ovation so they should be (sonically) pretty different. I get what was said about playing slightly different things, I'm going to keep that in mind for future recordings. I'm experimenting with getting rid of one of the doubles and using Waves Reel ADT to double it, seems to sound better in mono.
 
I've played almost-identical pats on multiple different guitars and still had the problem - its mostly because your strumming (how the pick actually hits the strings) is never identical so you get the phase issue Ashcat mentioned
 
I've recorded entire albums of fingerstyle original instrumental guitar with two renditions, identical, hard L and R and not noticed an issue.

I say "original" because the piece is the piece - there are no inversions to be had, I just want it to sound big and wide and have two tracks playing the same thing - and I'm not talking strumming basic chords which seems to be what passes for acoustic guitar playing around here in the main. Worked fine for me. Same guitar. Same mics. Different takes.
 
Arm - if the the two tracks were identical, then it should sound no different when summed to mono, right? And if that is true, then what was the real purpose? No doubt fingerplaying is much different (as recorded) than strumming.
 
mjbphotos said:
Arm - if the the two tracks were identical, then it should sound no different when summed to mono, right? And if that is true, then what was the real purpose? No doubt fingerplaying is much different (as recorded) than strumming.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on what Armistice means by 'identical'. If two separate takes of the same piece are recorded, no matter how closely they match, they will not be identical. And it is the slight 'not-identicalness' that creates the interest.

If they were in fact exactly identical, then there would be no audible difference whether played left and right or summed to mono (and then there would be no real purpose).
 
Another trick is called the Nashville tuning. You take a skinnier high E string than what is currently on the guitar, say a .010 if it is .012, and replace the G string with that skinny string. Then tune it an octave higher than the standard G. Now you get this second guitar with this high end thing going, sometimes very pleasant, and you don't have to learn how to play the mandolin.....
 
What I tend to do - not that it's right or wrong, it's just my method - is on one of the takes I try and use all barre chords (when possible), and the other take I use the 'simple' chords and then pan left and right. I don't really change mic placement on either take as when I get up I move the mic away and move the chair, and inevitably when I sit back down again I'm in a slightly different position anyway, so I've unintentionally changed the positions of everything.

Even if I can't do this Barre/Simple switch for all of the chords, I find that even changing out all G chords, or A/Am chords to Barre for one take makes a massive positive difference.
 
Capo. Alternate chord voicing. Change the mic. Change the guitar. Nashvillage Tuning (already mentioned!).

Here's one that I will use from time to time especially if the acoustic guitar has a decent pickup system installed or one available to clip in. Mic the instrument as normal. Take a DI off of the pickup. Find a sound in a library you like and add it in. I also will take this feed into an acoustic modeling preamp pedal like a LR Baggs or a Fishman Aura ( I have both) Just the difference in the sounds from the original take will build the sound and give you L/R options, mix options, EQ options and only one take so alignment and phase issues become moot.
 
jjinvegas said:
Another trick is called the Nashville tuning. You take a skinnier high E string than what is currently on the guitar, say a .010 if it is .012, and replace the G string with that skinny string. Then tune it an octave higher than the standard G. Now you get this second guitar with this high end thing going, sometimes very pleasant, and you don't have to learn how to play the mandolin.....
Click to expand...

I've always thought that Nashville tuning was the top E and B kept original, and all the others an octave up. I'm probably wrong, however I really like the idea of changing out just the G string though :thumbs up: I'm going to give that a go tonight.
 
witm8 said:
I've always thought that Nashville tuning was the top E and B kept original, and all the others an octave up. I'm probably wrong, however I really like the idea of changing out just the G string though :thumbs up: I'm going to give that a go tonight.
Click to expand...

That IS one of the Nashvillage acoustic tricks. High E and B the same and then you start over with what would be the top four string gauges and tuned to standard. ( these tuned up an octave)One of the other tricks as was stated. Change out the G with the same gauge as the E (or smaller) and tune it up an octave.

There are 'other' tricks they have perfected there. Lately it's all about a six-string banjo tuned like a guitar and played like a guitar.
 
Back to the OP. I like the doubled acoustic sound where it fills up the sonic stage. My take is eff-it, if you're looking for that big sound, you're only going to get it in stereo, forget about the mono mix. Who ever listens in mono anymore? AM radio?? Do you really want to be on AM radio? lol. Okay, maybe some PA system at a bar, but the listeners there are drunk, they don't care.

Forget about the mono mix, that's gone the way of audio tape. :laughings: (j/k analog guys. Don't get bent. :D)
 
I'm pretty sure that if you say Nashville Tuning to anybody who's ever heard of it, they're going to think you mean all four "low" strings up an octave. It's exactly like the "extra" strings on a 12 string. I keep one of my electrics permantly strung that way, and I literally just buy a 12 string set and use the second course for the Nashville guitar and then the other strings just go on one of my others.

I've also got one shortscale guitar (a Squier Mini Strat, so actually shorter than short) that I string with the same strings as everything else but then tune up a fourth (A>A) which can force you to play different chord shapes, and can make an interesting contrast. Then there's the baritone which is of course the other direction, but the same idea.

Yes, I'm talking electrics, but it's ultimately the same principle.

You could really try any alternate tuning you like, but the main point is to end up playing something noticeably different from the original.
 
I always wanted to try this but I was afraid to waste strings. Great tip with the 12 string pack!
 
I stand corrected on the term Nashville tuning, the G string trick I mentioned was shown to me by a guitarist from Memphis, maybe I will start calling this the Memphis tuning...smile. One thing changing just the G string allows is reducing the tension on so many open chords, most of the problems with intonation in the most common chords like D, E, C, is that dang G string, and this seems to make those chords sound sweeter.
 
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