Does Amp Type Matter?

[Kyle015]

Ok, right now I am recording my guitar on my crappy Silvertone 10w because my other amp broke. Nothing is really wrong with this amp but would the recording benefit more if I were using, say, a Marshall 15w combo or something like that? Thanks in advance.

 

[rayc]

Marshall 15w seems like an oxymoron to me.
It would depend entirely on the sound you are after.
Can you get the sound want or at least a sound you like from the Silvertone?
Can you get a clean dry track you can scuz up in the computer or the dirty farty sound you've always been after right out of the speaker?
Is there a line out that has different qualities?
That's where the matter rests.

 

[jndietz]

Ok, right now I am recording my guitar on my crappy Silvertone 10w because my other amp broke. Nothing is really wrong with this amp but would the recording benefit more if I were using, say, a Marshall 15w combo or something like that? Thanks in advance.

Amp type does not really matter, its all about how you record it. Some people prefer tube amps to solid-state, some people prefer this mic placement technique to this one... yadda yadda.

As long as you are getting a sound that you enjoy from that amp, then really there should be no issue

 

[Kyle015]

See, that's my problem. I'm not really getting the sound I want out of the amp. I get a good tone, but it isn't "in-your-face" enough for me. To record, I place the mic 1" from the grill and point it at a 45 degree angle facing the cone. I record with an Audix i5 by the way.

 

[jndietz]

See, that's my problem. I'm not really getting the sound I want out of the amp. I get a good tone, but it isn't "in-your-face" enough for me. To record, I place the mic 1" from the grill and point it at a 45 degree angle facing the cone. I record with an Audix i5 by the way.

This is what I did with a Crate 15w:

Set the amp up the way you want it, how loud, three-band EQ, etc. Then, set the microphone up the way you want it. Okay, now record whatever you want. Then, copy the waveform you just recorded and past it to the track below it. Set the pan on the top track to about 40% or so to the left, and then the one below it 40% or so to the right.

See if that sounds a little more full.

 

[mx_mx]

How are you getting the mic into the soundcard? Are you using a mixer, or just a crappy lil adapter?

 

[Kyle015]

Nope, no mixer. I run an XLR with a 1/8 stereo adapter directly into my soundcard. Sometimes I run the mic through a guitar pedal first to function as a preamp. I'm on a budget, if you can't tell...

 

[Massive Master]

Oh... My... God...

First off - The core sound is *EVERYTHING*

It doesn't matter whether you're recording with a SM57 or a U87. If the core sound doesn't sound right, just stop, and make it right. If you can't make the amp sound the way you want, there is little you can do about it.

Tube preamp, solid state preamp - None of that matters a hill of beans if the amp isn't doing what you want.

After that -

Copying a mono track and panning one to the left and one to the right does *NOTHING* except make a louder mono track. It won't do anything to make it sound "fuller" or "more spacious" or anything else. It will give you *exactly the same* signal as either channel alone.

Stereo is the *difference* between left and right. Copying a mono track doesn't create a difference - It stacks volume. Not that there aren'y ways to synthesize "space" in there by using time or modulation based techniques. But not simply copying and panning... The best way is still to record the parts twice.

 

[dwarf]

Have you considered the amp modeler route?

I've just gotten into using my gt-6 for recording. I know it can't beat the sound of a real amp (God I know) but it is alot more practical for me (as I get home late). I've managed to get some "allright" sounds out of it. And I'm pretty sure you're going to get a better sound out of one of thoes as opposed to a solid state 15watt.

Save your $$$$$ a get one either that or save up many $$$$ and get a 15/30 watt tube combo.

 

[Kyle015]

Thanks for the posts!

Dwarf, I own an amp modeler and have tried it, but I can never EQ it the way I want it. I always like the results I get with amp recording better.

Massive Monster, thanx for the advice. But the thing is, I do like the sound coming out of my amp. It's just fine. But my mic doesn't seem to capture the sound exactly like it is coming out of the amp for some reason. I play my recording on computer speakers and it sounds exactly the way it does out of the amp. But when I listen to it on headphones or a cd player, it's too raw and too noisy and not refined like it should be. Could the problem be that I need to record two tracks and pan them left and right?

Any other suggestions?

 

[bubbagump]

Oh... My... God...

First off - The core sound is *EVERYTHING*

Um yeah. This is like asking does it matter if I record an elephant when I want it to sound like a car horn. If the original sound is not good, how in the world is the recorded sound going to be decent? A crappy sounding guitar tone recorded is going to sound like a crappy guitar tone recorded.

 

[Farview]

This is what I did with a Crate 15w:

Set the amp up the way you want it, how loud, three-band EQ, etc. Then, set the microphone up the way you want it. Okay, now record whatever you want. Then, copy the waveform you just recorded and past it to the track below it. Set the pan on the top track to about 40% or so to the left, and then the one below it 40% or so to the right.

See if that sounds a little more full.

This doesn't do anything but make it louder.

Mono= the same thing coming out of both speakers= 2 tracks of the same thing panned.

Unless you change the timing, tone, phase, etc... of one of the tracks, you aren't accomplishing anything.

 

[Farview]

But my mic doesn't seem to capture the sound exactly like it is coming out of the amp for some reason. I play my recording on computer speakers and it sounds exactly the way it does out of the amp. But when I listen to it on headphones or a cd player, it's too raw and too noisy and not refined like it should be. Could the problem be that I need to record two tracks and pan them left and right?

Any other suggestions?

You need some sort of mic preamp. You computer speakers are not good for monitoring because they are not designed to sound 'real' What you are hearing in the headphones and the stereo is much closer to the sound that you are recording.

There is a bare minimum of equipment that is needed to get workable recordings. You only seem to have about half of that. Even the cheapest 2 channel mixer plugged into the line input of a stock soundcard can get you a more useable recording.

 

[Massive Master]

Could the problem be that I need to record two tracks and pan them left and right?

If you mean recording *twice* then I'd definitely give that a shot. If you mean recording once and then splitting it, then no. It doesn't do anything (as mentioned above).

That all being said - "You like the sound" of the amp. Do you like it *where the microphone is* or do you like it *in the room* - Those are two completely different things...

 

[Kyle015]

Farview, I'm trying to get by with the cheapest equipment possible. I'm not looking for Coldplay quality, I just want my song to sound relatively pleasing to the ear when it's done. Do you honestly think I NEED a preamp or mixer to get a good mix?

Massive Monster, I never really thought about it that way. I guess I like the sound in the room, not the sound directly coming from the amp. Should I place my mic farther back? And by the way, I did mean recording twice, not copying the track and panning it.

And I was thinking to myself yesterday, if typical computer speakers can really lie to you about the sound you just recorded and make it sound good, why shouldn't we be able to equalize it so it sounds like that on a cd player or headphones?

 

[Kyle015]

Sorry about calling you Massive Monster, by the way.

 

[Massive Master]

Sorry about calling you Massive Monster, by the way.

No problem. My wife calls me that all the time.

But yeah, you really need to like what you hear *at the speaker* - The room is always going to sound quite different.

And if you like the room sound, you could try using a condenser as an area mic, but you might not like the way the *whole room* sounds with it.

Combining the two - Close mic, room mic, and panning them around a bit - Can't go wrong there.

 

[Farview]

Farview, I'm trying to get by with the cheapest equipment possible. I'm not looking for Coldplay quality, I just want my song to sound relatively pleasing to the ear when it's done. Do you honestly think I NEED a preamp or mixer to get a good mix?

That mic was never designed to be used with that type of interface. It works, but just barely. The sound that the mic is hearing is getting funneled through a noisey, garbagey, mis-matched interface. The more tracks that get recorded, the more of the garbage will stack up in the mix.

And I was thinking to myself yesterday, if typical computer speakers can really lie to you about the sound you just recorded and make it sound good, why shouldn't we be able to equalize it so it sounds like that on a cd player or headphones?

It's not a matter of EQ. Those speakers do not have the ability (for various reasons) to reproduce the type of sound needed to mix.

 

[Dani Pace]

You asked if amp choice really matters, yes it does. Not only that but mic choice matters too. Most people swear by certain amps or by certain mics and I wont argue with them (whatever works best is the thing to use in my opinion) but some combinations of amp/mic will work better than others. I've got 8 amps and 6 speaker cabs (all different) which allows me to get quite a variety of tones, combined with 6 different mics. Sometimes (for a certain sound) one combination works, but for a different sound a different amp/cab/mic just sounds better. You need to find the guitar/amp/cab combo that sounds like what you want to hear, then find the mic and mic placement that transfers that sound to your recording. Better recording gear will make getting "that" sound on your recordings much easier but simply put... the better it sounds in the beginning, the better it will sound in the finished project.

 

[Reggie]

Maybe I can provide a little more helpful clarification....

I guess it doesn't really matter about the amp "type", it really just matters about the amp sound. As was mentioned, you really don't know what your amp sounds like to your mic, unless you use the mic as your ears. What I mean is you have to monitor your mic signal through monitor speakers (preferably) or at least decent headphones to get an idea of what you are REALLY recording. And you may want to get some calibration equipment to make sure your mic is EXACTLY 1" from the grill and the angle is 45 degrees. OK, just kidding about the calibration; it doesn't matter where you put the mic as long as it sounds good when you record it. *hint*hint*>play around with mic placement more.

And all this adapting and guitar pedal amplifying and stuff is going to hurt your signal pretty badly. Stock soundcards are sometimes equipped with a "mic input" that has some sort of primitive noisy preamp. Never use this input. Always use the line input. I believe it would be better to go through the guitar pedal with the mic, and into the line input, than to go straight from the mic to the soundcard's mic input. Of course, best of all (and really quite necessary) would be to get a decent little preamp (AudioBuddy or such) and plug the output of the preamp into the soundcard line input. You will need an adapter such as this most likely: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CMP159/