Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[Toker41]

Microsoft doesn't have their stuff as "pirate proof" I know a LOT of people who use non-genuine "corporate" copies of XP, and various other microsoft products.

Yea, it's out there. I've seen it. Hard to update it, though. A real pain in the ass to deal with, and it becomes unstable after a while.

 

[danny.guitar]

Yea, it's out there. I've seen it. Hard to update it, though. A real pain in the ass to deal with, and it becomes unstable after a while.

...and how is that any different from any other version of Windows?

 

[Toker41]

The point is that Microsoft has clearly shown effort to keep it's product "pirate proof", or at least cut way down on it. The technology is there, yet is NOT widely used. There is a reason for this. I have NEVER seen one study that shows clearly in numbers where piracy has hurt any large software company, yet I have seen prices inflated to cover these "losses". Hence, piracy is profitable for these companies, and the public gets duped without a shred of actual evidence.

Again, before I get blasted with negative feedback from the holy rolling, bible thumping, judgmental people on this thread....I am not saying pirating software is right, or that it's not stealing. I am not arguing "right and wrong". I'm simply stating how things work. There is no "right and wrong" in big business, only "profit, and loss". If pirating causes no real loss, yet can be used as a reason to inflate profit, then the industry is not going to put an effort into fighting it. It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Some people are easily fooled by the trick, while others educate themselves with the facts and numbers before they speak out of their blindly lead ass. Stealing is morally wrong, but using the claim that stealing is causing a loss to needlessly inflate prices is also stealing, and is also morally wrong. Which brings me back to my point...these companies see no wrong in piracy, and put no effort into stopping it, as long as it benefits them. Instead, all the effort goes into "public awareness" that piracy happens.

I'm willing to bet that the ones here that believe piracy is hurting large software companies, and that the price increase that is blamed on this is justified, also believe Iraq had WMD's and Bush didn't lie.

 

[danny.guitar]

Toker, stop speaking out of your ass, it's starting to stink.

these companies see no wrong in piracy, and put no effort into stopping it, as long as it benefits them. Instead, all the effort goes into "public awareness" that piracy happens.

If it was possible to stop piracy without inconveniencing the customers who actually pay for it they would.

If they didn't care, they wouldn't be giving out those stupid dongles and probably wouldn't even bother with a serial number/registration system.

 

[Toker41]

They still have to give the appearance of caring. To say there is no problem, is taking away your reason for price jacking.

Those registrations are a joke as far as piracy protections, and have a lot more to do with the companies gathering information for marketing, controlling updates (or limit there of), and more or less staying somewhat in "control" of paying, "honest" consumers use of the software. They still allow multiple registrations from one key without limit. Fact is, there is NO aggressive move toward anti piracy software. Companies don't give a rat's ass about inconveniencing the customers. All they care about is the bottom line. The degree that a customer is willing to be inconvenienced is factored into the price of the unit. You would be surprised by what consumers will put up with. Not to mention that once the factory seal is broken, software can not be returned, so the consumer is now stuck with whatever inconvenience comes with installation.

It's a great set up. They have you pointing fingers at the "pirates" on forums for the higher price, while they use it to steal from you. All with this digital technology they sold you on, and told you that you had to have it.
You're wasting your time and energy arguing with a guy who already stated he doesn't use pirated software, when you should be reading up on the issue with an open mind. People are funny. Individually they are intelligent, but by the mass they are easily lead (or mislead) like blind sheep.

There's no need to get personal, Danny. We are not discussing right and wrong. We are discussing the facts of business.

 

[danny.guitar]

We are discussing the facts of business.

I know the facts of business.

I used to (and still do in my freetime) write software as a business.

Piracy is referred to as a "loss of potential income" when the target market is willing to pay a good amount of money ($200-$500+), and when the people who pirate the software either can't afford it, or wouldn't pay that much.

Software that sells for $20-$100 is usually the stuff that gets hurt by piracy.

Sophisticated programs like DAWs would be expensive anyway with or without piracy. If you knew how many developers it takes to make something like a DAW, how many beta testers, how much time, how much developers charge, and how small the target market is, you would understand why the prices are so high.

 

[MessianicDreams]

Piracy is referred to as a "loss of potential income" when the target market is willing to pay a good amount of money ($200-$500+), and when the people who pirate the software either can't afford it, or wouldn't pay that much.

how does that fit in with someone who currently uses a pirated version but plans on buying once s/he using it professionally?


i've had many friends tell me "yeh, i used a cracked version of (insert $2k bundle suit name here), but once i've left uni and i'm using it to make money i will have no problem buying it".

how does that fit in with your plan?

 

[danny.guitar]

how does that fit in with someone who currently uses a pirated version but plans on buying once s/he using it professionally?


i've had many friends tell me "yeh, i used a cracked version of (insert $2k bundle suit name here), but once i've left uni and i'm using it to make money i will have no problem buying it".

how does that fit in with your plan?

It doesn't. Most people who pirate software have no plans of ever paying for it. And most people who say they will, don't.

Maybe there are some, like your 'friend', but I'm sure they are few and far between...

 

[danny.guitar]

And you'd be surprised how little piracy is discussed in project/development...at least from my experience.

It's usually a basic serial/registration scheme that only changes slightly between each version.

 

[fraserhutch]

The problem is that it is very expensive to design and implement anti-piracy measures and DRM. Those costs get pushed down to the end user. Given how much some people whine about the "jacked up prices" (bullshit, btw), companies have to weigh the benefits of implementing such a scheme versus the drawbacks of lost sales resulting from higher prices and disgruntled customers.

Now, of course certain companies such as MS are in a better position to implement widescale DRM solutions as they can leverage those costs across many products. That is NOT the case with companies such as Steinberg, Cakewalk, et al. So, you can't have it both ways.

And for what it's worth, EVERY company that I have worked has taken piracy seriously. It is BS to assert that companies don't care about it.

And you'd be surprised how little piracy is discussed in project/development...at least from my experience.

It's usually a basic serial/registration scheme that only changes slightly between each version.

 

[dkerwood]

It's not expensive to enact anti-piracy measures. Just look at the Valve company and their game, Half Life 2.

In order to install the program, you must register it online. The installation CD actually doesn't even have the entire program on it - you have to download the rest directly from Valve using their interface software. No more installing one program on multiple computers - Valve registers the program immediately and the only way you can install it on a second computer is if you uninstall and deregister the first version.

It's a pain in the butt (took me 4 hours to install the silly program when I had dial up), but it works. You could easily modify it for your own use.

 

[fraserhutch]

Yeah, right. Steam was very expensive to develop and is expensive to maintain. Trust me, the video game indsustry is much more lucrative than the sequencer/audio app industry. The effort is piggy-backed on a digital distribution network (Steam).

It's not expensive to enact anti-piracy measures. Just look at the Valve company and their game, Half Life 2.

In order to install the program, you must register it online. The installation CD actually doesn't even have the entire program on it - you have to download the rest directly from Valve using their interface software. No more installing one program on multiple computers - Valve registers the program immediately and the only way you can install it on a second computer is if you uninstall and deregister the first version.

It's a pain in the butt (took me 4 hours to install the silly program when I had dial up), but it works. You could easily modify it for your own use.

 

[dkerwood]

The problem is still this - the higher the price tag, the more I'll be willing to use a hacked version.

Heck, release a "lite" version or an indefinite use demo. Let me pick it up for under $100, try it for 6 months and really see what it can do. Don't give me a 15 day demo where everything is still locked and expect me to get the hang of it and decide if it's worth dropping 5 bills.

I get extremely frustrated when I buy an expensive piece of software and it turns out to be buggy, laggy, and not very user friendly. I need to know if it will handle real world applications - simultaneous playback of 26 tracks with 47 real time effects... I need to know if it will crash there or if I will need to bounce tracks down... BEFORE I spend my money on it.

Understand that you're fighting for my money. You're battling with pretty impressive foes - recording hardware, musical instruments, mics... not to mention live applications like PA and lights. Honestly, the software is low on the totem pole. If I have a top level sound card, mic, and instrument, the interfacing software isn't going to matter much. But believe me, I want the best stuff on the software end, and I'm willing to pay for it. But don't ask me to pay $500 for your software and THEN pay $30-$50 for each plug-in!

Here's the bottom line - make your stuff affordable, and you'll get my money. Don't, and somebody else will get my cash. I'll buy a Cakewalk program and I'll use your pirated version on the side, if it's more user friendly. Don't mistake that for a desire to spend several months' worth of paychecks on your program, though. User friendliness is rarely worth hundreds of dollars.

Finally, if you care about piracy, take some measure to stop it. Serial numbers don't work, so be original. Use a registration software that has to be authenticated online. Instead of a program that recognizes every single serial number, encode the specific serial number of the disk on the software to stifle mass production. Require online registration to unlock the program. Include a separate unlock program hidden in the installation program. Tie the installation directly to the disk. Do SOMETHING. Hackers will get around most anything you do, but don't make it easy. Make it messy. Most of us are casual pirates and want clean hacks. If we have to venture outside of our safe Windows world, we'd rather go without or just pay for the program.

Oh, and the most obvious way to stop piracy of your program - release an intentionally "hacked" version of the program on the popular file sharing sites. Now make it flawed, so that it crashes every time that it boots. The program will flood the sites like wildfire, and nobody will be able to use it. Yes, people will hack the real thing, but with a serious head start, 90 percent of would be pirates will be thwarted.

But to tell us that you hate piracy and yet do nothing to stop it? Come on.

 

[danny.guitar]

Heck, release a "lite" version or an indefinite use demo. Let me pick it up for under $100, try it for 6 months and really see what it can do. Don't give me a 15 day demo where everything is still locked and expect me to get the hang of it and decide if it's worth dropping 5 bills.

I get extremely frustrated when I buy an expensive piece of software and it turns out to be buggy, laggy, and not very user friendly. I need to know if it will handle real world applications - simultaneous playback of 26 tracks with 47 real time effects... I need to know if it will crash there or if I will need to bounce tracks down... BEFORE I spend my money on it.

I can see where you're coming from. But most DAWs work at such a low level, and there are so many different kinds of hardware/interfaces, it's nearly impossible to make sure it will work flawlessly on all systems. This is what beta versions are for.

Here's the bottom line - make your stuff affordable, and you'll get my money.

I think it's already been mentioned why software costs so much. Programmers charge out the ass for their time, and the market is small.

Finally, if you care about piracy, take some measure to stop it. Serial numbers don't work, so be original. Use a registration software that has to be authenticated online. Instead of a program that recognizes every single serial number, encode the specific serial number of the disk on the software to stifle mass production. Require online registration to unlock the program.

There's already a lot of software that uses an online registration. And there's always a way around that. The only real way would be to require constant online access (like most games do). But the problem is, most people who use DAWs have a separate computer for recording, and no internet access on it. It would suck to have to be online to be able to record wouldn't it? If your internet goes out...and assuming you're a loyal customer and you can't use something you paid good money for...

 

[Reilley]

People steal software for the same reason a dog licks his privates: because he can.

 

[Toker41]

It doesn't. Most people who pirate software have no plans of ever paying for it. And most people who say they will, don't.

Maybe there are some, like your 'friend', but I'm sure they are few and far between...

What do you base that information on?

also, Studies show that most people that use pirated software (or downloaded music), would NOT have bought it if the couldn't got it for free. So the extra price jacking that is blamed on pirating is bull. The companies are using pirating as an excuse to overcharge the consumer.

I fully understand why software can be so expensive, and I'm not arguing those point. However, there is, built into the price, an amount that these companies claim they have to charge to "offset the loss they suffer from piracy". It's a crock.

 

[acidrock]

also, Studies show that most people that use pirated software (or downloaded music), would NOT have bought it if the couldn't got it for free.

In another study it was found that most bank robbers would not work for the money they stole.

That is the dumbest excuse I've read for pirating software since this thread started.

 

[Toker41]

Yeah, right. Steam was very expensive to develop and is expensive to maintain. Trust me, the video game indsustry is much more lucrative than the sequencer/audio app industry. The effort is piggy-backed on a digital distribution network (Steam).

As I already stated...
,...I sure would like to hear a C.E.O. of a MAJOR software companies take on this.

The President of Sony records admitted in a recent interview that piracy really does not affect sales that much. The reason they don't like it, is that they can no longer control what the public listens to (radio, and MTV payola), and can not sink money and time into the bands THEY WANT TO PUSH. A public with to many choices can not be manipulated. So, once again the industry lied about piracy having an impact on sales.

 

[Toker41]

In another study it was found that most bank robbers would not work for the money they stole.

That is the dumbest excuse I've read for pirating software since this thread started.

First off, it's not an excuse. It's a simple fact. Nowhere do I claim it is an excuse, and no where on this thread did I ever state there was an excuse for stealing. Maybe you should read more carefully before you go throwing words like "dumb" around.

 

[acidrock]

First off, it's not an excuse. It's a simple fact. Nowhere do I claim it is an excuse, and no where on this thread did I ever state there was an excuse for stealing. Maybe you should read more carefully before you go throwing words like "dumb" around.

Okay,that is the dumbest rationalisation for stealing I've heard since this thread has started,happy now?