Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[TerraMortim]

Sorry Terra but that's a pretty poor analogy.

There's a difference between making your own wine, and taking someone else's music that they made.

Downloading music on the internet for free is like accepting stolen goods. I know that seems like an overly-harsh way of putting it, and I wouldn't say it's nearly as bad, but it is what it is. Receiving something for free that isn't free.

With that said, the music industry should have known what they were getting into as soon as music was put in digital form and computers came with CD-ROM drives. You can't make a product that can be easily stolen/distributed and then complain about a loss of sales. But it doesn't change the fact that it's stealing, and "wrong" if you have any sort of ethics.

I don't download software or stuff because I'd feel shitty about it. Stealing is poor character if nothing else.

*do keep in mind, lol I wrote the last comment when I was.... enjoying my new batch....fully, and in.... ummm....excess lol..*

I don't believe anything is right or wrong in itself....especially based on the system of our laws. It's against the law to kill someone, but is it, really wrong if that person killed and tortured your entire family, raped your wife and children, or something like that. It's against the law to buy a cuban cigar in the states, but should that induce guilt for someone enjoying an exquisite cuban stogey? As I've said, personally, I believe that if one makes a decision to download "free content" then, there should be a sense of honour about it. It's very true that musicians, software designers, etc, need to make a living. I, personally, buy music, software, movies, as much as I possibly can, as money is available. For the sake of arguement for creative software.. this is a very difficult business, and sometimes there is required a very sophisticated tool to get a job done. . . I must say that, while I've done my share of professional work, and have gotten paid sometimes well, sometimes very horribly...I probably wouldn't have had a chance in hell if every single piece of software I worked with was purchased. Don't misunderstand me, I do absolutely everything I can, and always buy software that I find useful, whenever the money exists. However, there are many jobs that I have gotten, due to my ability to say for instance, get a very realistic orchestral sound, in a black metal project that I've been contracted to do things for. Now, how is that possible, for someone such as I, with little in the way of money that goes beyond the basics of rent, power, internet, food, get that job done? It's an impossible job without some degree of quality orchestral libraries (most of them cost...A LOT...look up Vienna Symphonic Library to see the price of the software I used for the job) ... so regardless of what one perceives as "wrong" doesn't this in effect level the playing field, and give me a chance against mr. big shot with his multi gazillion dollar setup? I'm not making a fortune with this, and the money I do make, usually goes back into ... buying this software, buying more gear. . .

The argument that "we didn't have this option with physical gear" is only half true. While yes, the price point of $0 isn't available in the hardware world... it's very common to find VERY CHEAP used gear in pawn shops, classified ads, through friends and contacts, etc... The manufacturer makes not a single cent from me buying a used piece of gear, it doesn't give them rent money, it doesn't help them develop new gear, in effect, the sale doesn't even exist to them. This a VERY common practice in the field of music as, it's hard to make a lot of money at, and as a result, there's always someone desperate for money trying to sell shit to pay the bills, and there's always someone too broke as a result of paying those bills to afford the insane prices of equipment associated with any part of the creation or performance of music. You didn't see manufacturers preaching to everyone about the evils of buying gear used. . . .Should they turn around and sue anyone who buys something of their manufacture second hand? On the other hand, if I find a schematic of a nice piece of gear from a top drawer manufacturer, should they have the right to sue me, if I make my own version of their piece of gear, for my own use, and only my own use. As the law says, yeah... but is that "right?" It's not something that you're selling. I'm technically "stealing" their design... I'm stealing their product, and recreating it for my own use because the price point they have set is unrealistic for anyone but Mr Joe Hotshot Studioowner. This is pretty accepted practice in the audio world, if you can find the schematic for certain gear.


Just a little argument for argument's sake. . .

 

[wreckd504]

this thread is like bad girlfriend who just won't go away


surely by page 41 we're repeating ourselves now

 

[TerraMortim]

It must...consume....the flesh....you will...be brainwashed.... you must... read.

 

[danny.guitar]

I'm seeing page 65.

Is this the biggest thread on the whole forum?

 

[TerraMortim]

yes, probably. Here's to making this...the biggest thread..IN THE WORLD!!!!! MUHAHAHA!

 

[Toker41]

It's like a bad B movie...

...the thread that wouldn't die!

 

[IloveJesus]

When you resort to stealing, you are missing the whole point.

Nothing good comes easy or free.


You should only be buying the really expensive stuff if you:

1. Already know how to use most of the features.

2. Are really serious about recording.

3. Have a buttload of time to learn. Those programs have so many features it can take years to learn.

Start simple.

 

[hardwire666]

When you resort to stealing, you are missing the whole point.

Nothing good comes easy or free.


You should only be buying the really expensive stuff if you:

1. Already know how to use most of the features.

2. Are really serious about recording.

3. Have a buttload of time to learn. Those programs have so many features it can take years to learn.

Start simple.

Well put. Honestly try be fore you buy is the way to go. If it weren't for pirated software I wouldn't know how to use 90% of the software I know how to use, and personally I feel there is nothing wrong with using pirated software to learn on either. Information should be free, and you can take your limited versions and stick'em where the sun don't shine. Learning on a restricted version of software is just bad IMO. You are potentially putting a limit on what can be learned. This to me seems counter active to the spirit of learning.

Is stealing wrong. Yes it is, and that will never change. But, there are instances where it is more acceptable than others. No matter what we say or do, software piracy will always be there just as it always has been. The only reason it is a huge deal now, is because it became highly accessible to John Q. Public. Most people in the mid 90's didn't even know you could download pirated software, let alone that a virtual software black market existed. P2P changed all this, and brought piracy to the masses. It was the next logical evolution, and I'm sure there will soon enough be another evolution as well. Over all pointing fingers solves nothing, and there is little that can be done to stop it completely. If companies want the software they create to be harder to pirate, then it is up to them to take the necessary steps to prevent that.

Think about it like this. Your friends car gets stolen. You ask him what happened, and he tells you he left it unlocked, windows open, with the keys on the drivers seat. Would you feel sorry for him or call him a dumb shit and laugh for hours at his expense? None the less the car was stolen, and that is wrong to do. But, it is also the owners responsibility to secure his property, and prevent it from happening to the best of his ability in the first place. Software is a companies intellectual property, and it is there responsibility to secure it the best they can. Does any of this make it right to steal the software? No but if they are gunna moan, and wine about it being pirated, then they need to step up, take responsibility, and say "Well I suppose we could have made it harder to to do in the first place." Microsoft's WGA is a good example of that. Are there pirated versions of Windows out? Yes. Will it ever stop? No. Did it force some to just finally go buy a legal copy of the software? Yes! The plan worked.

In the end, the people that get hurt are the ones that make the biggest stink. Why? Because there is always some one who will disagree, and that's a fact. Hell right now some one is more than likely reading my post getting ready to flame me. Do I care, no because it's a risk that I take by opening my mouth. I accept my part in that if it happens, because over all what ever is said I should have taken the proper precautions to prevent it.

Jack Thompson is a douche, twinkies rule, and heres to page 66

 

[jrhoden]

for the average user theres alot of software out there thats reasonably priced...n-track,reaper(free),etc...if you are a more advanced user of this type of software if you can spend 40,000 to 100000000000 on building a state of the art studio whats the issue with buy a 600 or 700 peice of software?

 

[therage!]

for the average user theres alot of software out there thats reasonably priced...n-track,reaper(free),etc...if you are a more advanced user of this type of software if you can spend 40,000 to 100000000000 on building a state of the art studio whats the issue with buy a 600 or 700 peice of software?

Even Logic through in on the competition being priced at $500 now.

 

[TerraMortim]

for the average user theres alot of software out there thats reasonably priced...n-track,reaper(free),etc...if you are a more advanced user of this type of software if you can spend 40,000 to 100000000000 on building a state of the art studio whats the issue with buy a 600 or 700 peice of software?

this is true, but there are sadly certain things that litterally don't exist cheaply in the software world... if you are on pc reaper is an option, but it's not so functional yet for mac...as well as the fact that, quite frankly Logic is so useful, intuitive, and packed full of great stuff that it's worth the money. Then you look at the world of sample libraries... in many cases, esp with orchestral libraries, there IS NO cheaper option. You either get the multiple thousand dollars worth of samples, or it sounds fake, and you're limited on the compositional choices you have (let's see we have only...pizzicato, and string pads?) Also, in the mac world, while I believe it's more straight forward for music making, doesn't have as much in the way of free or cheap options (there are some, and some great ones, but not the thousands that windows machines have)... There are a few companies who regularly make plugins for a great price on the mac, but most of it is from more well known upper level companies that are charging almost as much for a plugin as I paid for my entire copy of Logic Studio (Logic Pro 8, Soundtrack Pro, MainStage, WaveBurner, and a few good sample libraries, and apple loops). You can't tell me that there's as much programming, money, time, etc... involved in creating one plugin, that does one function, than the entire Logic Studio bundle

The thing with an issue like this is, there is no true black and white answer for questions such as these...it can be argued till the cows come home, but in reality there, with anything in life, are about a million shades of grey, and that is even over simplifying it... Just the same as if you stab someone to death, it could be self defence, accidental, premeditated, as a result of insanity, a crime of passion, a means to an end (life insurance fraud), revenge, etc... All with varying degrees of perceived morality. Would you consider it the same exact thing someone who just cuts someone's throat because he enjoys it, vs. someone who's trying to protect their life? Don't give the normal response of ...it's different..yes, but what point I'm making isn't that it's the same type of thing, is that "morality" is not, and never is, an absolute black and white. There are many other factors to take in to account. Just because you have a certain morality, doesn't mean that it's what everyone ought to be doing. Anyway, this is exactly why a thread like this will be the longest one on the forum... people are trying to fit something that is somewhat complicated, and give an exact black or white answer to it. It's the same way politicians get people bitching back and forth at each other about abortion without any solution to come to place... people try to say only black or white, good or bad, instead of actually breaking the issue down and looking at all of the factors in different situations, and then assessing what morality might be appropriate for each particular circumstance.

That's when this turns from an interesting debate into a pissing contest... (my morality is purer than your morality, and so on)

 

[tbone88]

no i just do audacity

 

[TerraMortim]

Even Logic through in on the competition being priced at $500 now.

great move on their part. I must say, though..it's such a good piece of software it was even worth the huge price before...now...even better.

 

[Vaquero Verbal]

A few years ago there wasn´t really a possibility to test a programm in all its functions without getting an illegally cracked version. So many did , most never bought it but some did, because they found out its worth doing it !

These days nearly every manufactor has a trial version out there with all the full-version functions to test for 14 days or whatever, besides there is a lot of free and good stuff out there , vst vst instruments, samples, audioediting-software etc........
So if you really like a programm and you get something out of it (money, joy or whatever).

FUCKIN BUY IT !!! Thats what the hackers say too !

Dirk

 

[talontsiawd]

A few years ago there wasn´t really a possibility to test a programm in all its functions without getting an illegally cracked version. So many did , most never bought it but some did, because they found out its worth doing it !

That's pretty much how it was for me. I actually didn't really download too much, i just started with things i got off my bro. Eventually, it just makes more sence to buy. I think it took me about a month to get my computer up and running years ago when i only had pirated software. I bought a laptop about a month ago and all my software was on in less than an hour.

 

[TerraMortim]

So if you really like a programm and you get something out of it (money, joy or whatever).

FUCKIN BUY IT !!! Thats what the hackers say too !

yup! That's what I always say... and always do when money permits. see, that's what I mean about grey areas....with an issue such as this, there are people who are just idiots who think everything should be free, just because, people who use piracy as a preview, some people who use it to give themselves a bit of a headstart, which many end up buying it all when they make a decent wage at it.

I tend to think of people in very poor countries, who couldn't in a million years be able to buy this software... I think that's why we're seeing in more recent times a bit more professional sounding music from indie artists from countries where there is not an easy time getting ahold of, or affording pro software.

 

[DaveO]

Long after the last mushroom cloud of World War III dissipates, long after Keith Richards and the cockroaches have all finally died off, this thread will somehow find a way to adapt and continue growing.



Good God, I haven't posted much in HomeRec in the last year and a half to two years and now that I'm getting back into recording I find the thread-that-won't-die is STILL thriving. Give it a rest already, people!!!













Of course, if you're wasting time posting in or reading this thread then that's time you're not pirating software...

 

[Giganova]

Wow -- this thread is 4 1/2 years old and still alive!! I can't believe it.

 

[mwthompson]

Well put. Honestly try be fore you buy is the way to go. If it weren't for pirated software I wouldn't know how to use 90% of the software I know how to use, and personally I feel there is nothing wrong with using pirated software to learn on either. Information should be free, and you can take your limited versions and stick'em where the sun don't shine. Learning on a restricted version of software is just bad IMO. You are potentially putting a limit on what can be learned. This to me seems counter active to the spirit of learning.

Is stealing wrong. Yes it is, and that will never change. But, there are instances where it is more acceptable than others. No matter what we say or do, software piracy will always be there just as it always has been. The only reason it is a huge deal now, is because it became highly accessible to John Q. Public. Most people in the mid 90's didn't even know you could download pirated software, let alone that a virtual software black market existed. P2P changed all this, and brought piracy to the masses. It was the next logical evolution, and I'm sure there will soon enough be another evolution as well. Over all pointing fingers solves nothing, and there is little that can be done to stop it completely. If companies want the software they create to be harder to pirate, then it is up to them to take the necessary steps to prevent that.

"Spirit of learning?" HUH? What are we talking about here, professors, or software companies? Is it their job to teach you, with their resources, software and programming time? Information should not be free. It can be, but nobody should have the right to say how someone else manages their intellectual property. If they own the software, then they decide how it's distributed, not you.

Just because it's easy to commit a CRIME doesn't make it acceptable, in any case. You will still go to jail for stealing a car, locked or not. And, software piracy is still a crime whether the manufacturer used copy protection or not. Do you think women who get raped are "asking for it?"

There are no excuses. Just buy the software. Learn on the trials. Or use something like Reaper, which is very easy on the wallet. Or, PIRATE software, if you want to. Just don't go around justifying it and trying to convince people it's ok.

I don't think you'd appreciate working for free but when you steal software, someone just did... for you.

 

[TerraMortim]

Give it a rest already, people!!!

ummmm...... no.