do u prefer to run your final mix trough a limiter or compressor?

[noisedude]

Can anyone give some advice on whether the best way to do this is to run it all through a software comp or that doesn't achieve the 'cohesion' effect? Basically when my mix is done, I don't want the sound fiddled with much but a bit of gentle levelling out is good. Problem is that I haven't come across a hardware mixer in my price range which doesn't screw up the sound.

Basically what I'm asking is - to your ears, are there cheap or even free software compressors which are tonally transparent? (i.e. work in the dynamic domain only)

 

[Massive Master]

I recently picked up a couple of ART Pro VLA's though. I wonder if using one of those across the master buss would work for bringing the volume a little without killing the air and high frequency aspect?

From your other comments, I would think the VLA might work very well for you depending on the mixes... It's certainly not an "everything" box, but it's definitely a useful one.

I'll still throw in my usual disclaimer of "compress, but if you're compressing for the sake of sheer volume, make a copy without it."

Or at least find out if the client is even remotely interested in ever sending it out to a mastering service.

 

[tmix]

Massive,
Indeed, I would only be doing it for those folk I KNOW wont take the effort to get things mastered. I would only do it myself to keep them from doing something themselves and blaming it on my mixing.

More of a self preservation thing.

Tom

 

[ecktronic]

Can anyone give some advice on whether the best way to do this is to run it all through a software comp or that doesn't achieve the 'cohesion' effect? Basically when my mix is done, I don't want the sound fiddled with much but a bit of gentle levelling out is good. Problem is that I haven't come across a hardware mixer in my price range which doesn't screw up the sound.

Basically what I'm asking is - to your ears, are there cheap or even free software compressors which are tonally transparent? (i.e. work in the dynamic domain only)

All compressors will change the tone of a mix (very slightly), because the compressor will only catch certain frequencies. Think about if the attack is set to 40ms, then anything that has an attack quicker than 40ms isnt going to be compressed at all, which is mostly higher frequencies. So the lo end will get squashed and part of the high end wont be affected, thus the hi end is louder.

Id say software compressors are fine for gentle leveling although i aint really bothered about using them. The hardware ones add colour to mixes, but i dont really think software ones can add any colour (yet......mmmmm).

 

[lpdeluxe]

When someone says, "I'll just add a little compression/limiting to this to make it easier on the mastering engineer"...


Kill them.

It is a tragedy of digital music recording that people can do this without jeopardizing their immortal souls.

Do not do it.

 

[earworm]

nice, i spent some time reading posts on multiband or single band limiting on a final mix, all very interesting,
and your comments are great !

i'm gonna work on my mix, i don't like sqeezing a mix trough limiters,
but sometimes a band wants their demo loud,
but this time i'm mixing a song for a compilation cd,
i'm not 100% sure, i'm gonna ask the band, but i think some dude might "master" the compilation cd,

so then its best i don't sqeeze anything, i realise that thanks to you (=plural)

i don't like to see wave files with "their top cut off",
what i've been doing lately is running a limiter to to prevent peaking, not to boost the volume with it, and leave like 2 db of headroom, and after the limiter i use a gentle EQ, then it doesn't look that sqeezed

this forum is better than reading a book

**ps: no i wasnt running 20 limiters on 20 tracks....i'm not that evil

 

[Fishmed]

Before I mix, I lightly limit most of the tracks so the mix itself has fewer peaks, and when they do, they are not as dramatic. My mix level is way below the point of peaking, so I never apply any limiting during the mix down process. At this point the client can take it to another studio or a mastering facility to have it mastered. If I end up mastering my own mixes, I will apply some limiting to boost the volume.

The good thing about mastering my own mixes is that if the song suffers too much from the mastering process, I can always go back and remix the problem out. The most common track for me that happens with is the kick drum. I would usually go back and adjust the EQ and volume level in the mix.

 

[Middleman]

I am staying away from 2 buss compression these days unless the music calls for it. 24 bit has plenty of headroom and there is more of an airy feel if you keep out of compression.

That said, if its straight up rock, I will either run out to external compression or slap a UAD soft compressor on the mains while I mix. As stated above just a db or two. Sometimes 2-3 compressors in a row each at .5-1db. This is rare however. Compressing the mains is nice because it tends to make you back down compression on individual tracks. Techniques are all over the map however, depending on what you want to acheive at the end of the day.

If a musician cannot afford mastering and I end up chasing the loud wars, I might EQ, compress and limit the file but would prefer to use a non-compressed file during the process.

 

[mixsit]

Before I mix, I lightly limit most of the tracks so the mix itself has fewer peaks, and when they do, they are not as dramatic.

Curious what kink of limiting? Some brickwall and some slower?
Wayne

 

[mixsit]

To the original question, and assuming it's not going to mastering- I'd brickwall at least to the point where it's doing no damage. Usually that means only hitting some of the drum hits, and comp if it improves the sound. And fairly often, when a/b'd at equal volume it does not.
But never 'to make sure the levels are low enough'. That doesn't compute. Sounds like a second subject completely.

The key creative part is tuning in on how limiting or slow or fast release compression each sound unique. It's wide open.

 

[NYMorningstar]

huh? But the point of my post was not to encourage people to own expensive gear, but to suggest that for the application in question, unless you have very good gear it is better to not use any compression or limiting on the stereo mix at all,...

I don't know what the scientist was seeing but this statement here I have a little problem with. I don't think you should be making processing decisions based solely on the equipment you have. I can get a pretty decent sound with a Composer Pro for God's sake.

If a mix needs 1 or 2 db of compression then give it the compression it needs. Unless the equipment is introducing some radical artifacts you'd be better off doing it than not, no matter what the vehicle you use to get there. Like I used to tell my friends who had trouble with their cars, sometimes you need to check the nut behind the wheel if you can't get it to run right.

 

[BigRay]

I have created a setting in Sequoia that I most always use for my stereo mixdowns. I do location classical work, and dread touching the dynamics and doing much processing, but sometimes it is necessary.

1.17-to-1 compression ratio, -.3dB peak limiting,threshhold@-30, reaction at Peak, look ahead 1200 samples

 

[soundchaser59]

I think we get totally different answers to this question, depending on whether we are making home "mastered" cd's for self and friends, or whether we are intending to send the mixes out to be professionally mastered......

for personal use cd's, yeah I hit it with a few lite weight things....

for sending it out to be mastered, I would never put anything extra on it.....

 

[ecktronic]

Maybe a hard compressor would be god, but i dont put my mix through anything, which mean i might lose out on a little quality from loss of bits. (digital)

DAng That was a while ago!
Ive totally learnt a good bit since then.

Now I will use the L2 to boost my mixes at mastering, but only at the very end.
Sometimes I will have a L2 on at the mixing stage.

Ive tried compression but it always ends up loosing its dynamics and sounds squashed even with a small amount of compression. Maybe I set my attack and release times wrong.
Eck

 

[mixsit]

Ive tried compression but it always ends up loosing its dynamics and sounds squashed even with a small amount of compression. Maybe I set my attack and release times wrong.
Eck

Perhaps, but the point of course is to target the compression only to where the dynamics ask to be tamed, or for the effect. If not, it would just about have to be a step in the wrong direction.
Wayne

 

[Micter]

A bit of compression on the way out is usually good. Not much! a tad!

 

[TuoKaerf]

I don't know what the scientist was seeing but this statement here I have a little problem with. I don't think you should be making processing decisions based solely on the equipment you have. I can get a pretty decent sound with a Composer Pro for God's sake.

If a mix needs 1 or 2 db of compression then give it the compression it needs. Unless the equipment is introducing some radical artifacts you'd be better off doing it than not, no matter what the vehicle you use to get there. Like I used to tell my friends who had trouble with their cars, sometimes you need to check the nut behind the wheel if you can't get it to run right.

I get what he was saying though. There are certain pieces of gear that I've been graced to have been able to use that I'll stick across every stereo buss on every mix. Certain vintage Neve or API stereo compressors and EQ's have a very pretty "sound" to them, even without adding any processing.

I like to kick in the stereo buss compression and EQ as one of the last stages of mixing. I've found that the gear I use can add a little more shine to the mix by running it through the box.

However, I would highly discourage starting the mix with anything on your stereo buss. You should be able to remove the inserts on the buss and still have your mix hold together.

 

[scorpio01169]

I get what he was saying though. There are certain pieces of gear that I've been graced to have been able to use that I'll stick across every stereo buss on every mix. Certain vintage Neve or API stereo compressors and EQ's have a very pretty "sound" to them, even without adding any processing.

I like to kick in the stereo buss compression and EQ as one of the last stages of mixing. I've found that the gear I use can add a little more shine to the mix by running it through the box.

However, I would highly discourage starting the mix with anything on your stereo buss. You should be able to remove the inserts on the buss and still have your mix hold together.

i agree, but if you dont have that gear then do what you can with what you got... what i dont agree on is sssscientists or anyone who feels just cause someone spends money on their equipment that they have no right to post an opinion on "homerecording" i mean dont hate him cause he has money, love that he cares so much about his craft that he did spend money.

 

[Garik]

/\ absolutely true

i used to use Sound blaster live but i moved up to audiophile 192....if there is a big difference in that,surely there will be greater difference in more expensive gear.I believe nothing is better than some good equipment .But yes yes yes i know,it takes a pilot to fly the plane,but a faster plane will get you there faster,and in style

 

[Decipha]

i personally prefer compression... when i first started recording i used a limiter like crazy but i developed my ears and decided i did not like that sound, futhur developing my ears i've recently been able to apply compression to get the type of sound i desire


my vote... compressor