do I need a compessor in the chain for tracking?

[antispatula]

So for now I'm not messing with trying to calibrate my machine right now since I'm waiting to get a milivolt meter, and my machine already sounds friken sweet and doubt I'll be able to hear a difference even when I do get around to calibrating it, so I've started to play around with recording. First of all, tell me if this makes sense:

When I set the recorder's input level to LOW (-8dbm) it sounds WAY more strong and loud and sensitive than when I put it on HIGH (+4dbm), in which it sounds more "far away" and weak and the VU meters aren't nearly as responsive, as if the +4 setting was somehow more weak than the -8 setting. Either A. There's something terribly important I don't understand about sound and electronics or B. It's labled inversely. I DID think it was a little weird that the HIGH setting was on bottom and the LOW setting was on top.....it's usually the other way around.....

Secondly, I'm having some trouble with the jerky peaks I get on my VU's. I mean, I have to stay at the SAME volume no matter what to get the best sound and not get distortion. So what do I do when I'm going from some nice soft picking to chorus-strumming on my guitar? Do I need to hook up a comperssor after my pre or something? To be honest, I haven't even tried out my compressor and have expirience with it. But if it's a good idea, I'll definitely do it.

 

[themaddog]

If you're using noise reduction, there's not much need to track with a compressor, unless you're trying to save your compressor for other tracks for mixdown (ie, compress 6 of your tracks with only a 2 compressors).

If you're not using noise reduction, a little compression can be helpful to cut out some of the noise you'd get from passages that are too soft and then too loud. Try starting really minimal with guitar, like 2:1 or maybe 3:1 at a threshold of -10. So long as you don't notice any audio artificats that should help you out and keep the levels pretty solid without taking away your performance.

Or... play more consistently.

-MD

 

[FALKEN]

When I set the recorder's input level to LOW (-8dbm) it sounds WAY more strong and loud and sensitive than when I put it on HIGH (+4dbm), in which it sounds more "far away" and weak and the VU meters aren't nearly as responsive, as if the +4 setting was somehow more weak than the -8 setting. Either A. There's something terribly important I don't understand about sound and electronics or B. It's labled inversely. I DID think it was a little weird that the HIGH setting was on bottom and the LOW setting was on top.....it's usually the other way around.....

No, I think you get it...almost. It sounds like the +4 setting is "expecting" a +4 signal, and the -8 setting is "expecting" a -8 signal, so the -8 setting is more sensitive than the +4 setting. with the same signal going in, switching to the more "sensitive" setting gets you a louder result.

 

[antispatula]

aaaaaaaaaah that makes sense, thanks falken. I'm not sure which I like better. The -8db is more fat and "alive" but the +4 is a lot smoother and less jerky.

This doesn't have much to do with anything, but thought I'd share just cause it's kind of funny......I just spent like 3 hours making my own wire to hook up my preamp to my reel to reel, and whenever I tried using it, it would work, but the signal would come in like half a second after I played the part, and I was like whatthe.......so I rewired the cable, made a new one, made a shorter one, etc etc, and then I notced that I was accidentally monitoring off the repro head instead of through the sync so the signal would take a little longer to go through.......

 

[Farview]

aaaaaaaaaah that makes sense, thanks falken. I'm not sure which I like better. The -8db is more fat and "alive" but the +4 is a lot smoother and less jerky.

You are supposed to set it to match the signal you are feeding it. If you are feeding it a +4 signal, set it to +4. If you are feeding it a -10 signal, set it to -8.

BTW -10dbv is -8dbm

 

[reel buzzer]

I'd go from your guitar into the compressor, and then into the amp from the compressor.
That always works for me during tracking.

 

[antispatula]

I'm actaully talking about acoustic. Is it a good idea to have the compressor before or after the preamp?

Oh, and if my compressor has balanced outs, can I just connect the cold signal to ground if I'm running it into my unbalanced machine? Like this:

pin+..........................pin+
pin-...............\
pinG...............|...........pinG

G is ground, and the | then the \ is showing the merging of the - and G wire.

 

[Farview]

I'm actaully talking about acoustic. Is it a good idea to have the compressor before or after the preamp?

Oh, and if my compressor has balanced outs, can I just connect the cold signal to ground if I'm running it into my unbalanced machine? Like this:

pin+..........................pin+
pin-...............\
pinG...............|...........pinG

G is ground, and the | then the \ is showing the merging of the - and G wire.

Yes, or you can just use an unbalanced cable. (assuming it's 1/4)

 

[antispatula]

Yes, or you can just use an unbalanced cable. (assuming it's 1/4)

ok great. No, I have to make my own wires. The output 1/4" jack is easy enough, but my recorders inputs are unblanced XLR pin 3 hot. Yeah I know, weird......

So is a compressor good for before or after a preamp?

 

[FALKEN]

after.

here's a hint, by the way. (I wish all of my unbalanced cables were wired this way). If you are going unbalanced to balanced, when you tie the unused (-) signal to ground, ground it at the unbalanced source side of the cable, not the destination. Even though there is no signal on the wire, it will still pick up hiss, etc, and the balanced input will phase cancel it against the + wire. So, essentially, your connection is still "balanced" (sort of).

 

[ADATlove]

ok great. No, I have to make my own wires. The output 1/4" jack is easy enough, but my recorders inputs are unblanced XLR pin 3 hot. Yeah I know, weird......

So is a compressor good for before or after a preamp?

Anti- Do you have an old Otari machine? Maybe an MX-5050 or something? If that is your machine, I have a question for you as well as anyone else in the forum who might have an idea about my situation. I picked up an MX 5050 8 track a few years back and just found the time to work it into my existing setup. I found that I was getting playback just fine and was able to record the internal oscillator but was not able to get signal to tape (or even in the VU) via the line input in back. I tried two things: First I was running a mic through a pre on my board, assigning it to a bus, patching the bus to the input on Otari, then monitoring back on the board via the stereo bus. No signal. Then I tried using an external mic pre, an ART tube pre, and I got a signal just fine. I read an old post on this board from a guy who was trying to get a signal and eventually got it by rewiring his input cables because the Otari has pin 3 hot. Ii was about to start rewiring my cables but then I got a signal from the ART and now I am confused about the whole thing. What do you think?

 

[antispatula]

hey, I know what your problem is with the mx5050.

XLR cables have 3 pins. Pin 1 is the ground wire, Pin 2 is the "hot" or + signal, and pin 3 is the "cold" or - signal. But in THIS case, the machine is wired to accept the hot signal on pin 3 because that's how they did it prior to the 90's. So basically, pin 3 and pin 2 need to be switched. Break into your wire and rewire them so that the wire that's on pin 2 is now on pin 3. Does that make sense? If not, tell me and I'll help you out some more.

I'll email you this in case you don't ever come here again, seeing you have 1 post......

 

[Seeker of Rock]

So is a compressor good for before or after a preamp?

No one has answered your question and I would like to take a stab at it. Compressor after your preamp if you can't get your levels under control in the board. I use a two "recording channels", both JOEMEEK, and they serve as an all-in-one box. A lot of limitations though if you are compressing to tracks directly in the main signal path, because once the track is recording with anything in it you can't reverse it of course. I find it useful on vocals mainly. My drums are via an Alesis DM Kit, so no mics, my bass I do direct through the pre, guitars I don't find a big need for compression because the amp or guitar pickup (one or the other or both ) seems to act as kind of a limiter. In real life the ratio difference between how hard I am hitting the strings in some parts vs. how soft in others would be much greater than the peaks that are recorded. And given that, it is easily handled through playing with the sliders during the mix. Nonetheless, I still use the comp on my preamp/recording channel units and haven't had a problem yet that was a result of that.