distortion...?no,--frustration !!!

[threshhold2]

i tried everything, but i can't seem to produce a killer distortion sound out of my guitar. i use a les-paul studio into fender hot-rod deluxe (40 watt tube),and using BOSS metal zone pedal, and overdrive pedal.

i tweaked knobs, tried different settings....but did not get anywhere - i mean distortion all right, but i dont like it.

i was thinking maybe this specific amp is not meant for distortion at all, and i should get myself a MARSHALL amp...one of these jcm2000....??

 

[myhatbroke]

Wow dude, an over drive AND the metal zone? Don't tell me this is going on the dirty channel .

Well first off, the best distortion is produced by a good quality amp, tube usually. Now you are using stomp boxes and they usually don't produce the best tone. For recording you don't want so much gain. An over drive pedal is mainly for giving the amp gain an "over drive" and is usually just for leads. This metal zone produces ridiculous amounts of distortion, it almost sounds like a tv without signal with that little snow stuff, you know? For recording, you can't have that much distortion. Work on the amp gain, set it to a good gain level and tweak the knobs until it sounds good. If it doesn't sound good then that amp is not your match. Can you go through stomp box after stomp box for that killer tone? Yes and maybe but man it's a bitch. It's more proffesional to get a good amp with a good tone.

 

[Codmate]

I've heard great distorted tones coming from a Hot Rod Deluxe.

First either stick the amp on some crates, or angle it towards your ears so you can actually hear it properly. So many people complain that they can't get a great tone, when the speakers aren't even pointing at their head. Set the volume of the channel you're using to the sweet spot where the amp *just* starts breaking up when playing a power-chord with the guitar volume on full. Might be a bit loud. My Vibrolux does this at about 3 with my strat though

Use the amp's distortion channels for the drive before you start messing about with pedals. Make sure the guitar volume is on around 8 and twist the dirty dial (or whatever it happens to be called ) to around 25%.

This should give you a very light crunch. Now it's time to start playing with the tone controls. First set them all at the middle position.
Now take the treble right up and get a feel for what it's doing. Now cut it completely. Leave the other tone controls flat while you do this. Really get it set in your head what the control does. Take it in. Really listen. Getting the idea now?!

Cutting can be as important as boosting.

Do this many times with each tone control until you know them intimately. After about five minutes of sweeping them to their extremes, you will be ready to use them in combination. Now your brain actually knows what the controls are capable of you should be able to dial in 'a tone'.

OK, now it's time to play with the gain a bit more. Ha! No it's not - it's time to go listen to the guitar sounds you're trying to emulate - or get close to - or combine to make your own unique sound. I'd listen to Bloodsucker from Deep Purple In Rock myself. Make sure you're listening to somebody who plays humbuckers. If you tried to get Deep Purple sounds (for instance) you might find it frustrating as I think Ritchie used single-coils for most stuff.

OK - now it really is time to play with your dirty knob (ohhh matron).
First whack the volume on your guitar to full. Notice how the amp reacts - since you're using a nice valve amp it won't get much more loud, but it will become more compressed and dirtier. OK, now keep raising the dirty knob on the amp and playing with the volume on the guitar.

You'll find that the tones on this amp are pretty bluesy on the whole, so you may want to engage your pedal (on the clean channel probably) if you want that really compressed 'metal' tone. Make sure you're thorough in the way you play with the controls and you should have more success. Also bear in mind that 'full' isn't always the best setting for the gain or 'drive'.

Much of rock music doesn't actually use that much distortion. I'm listening to Bloodcucker now, and the guitar is just a touch crunchy.
Same goes for many Led Zep tracks.

 

[acidrock]

Much of rock music doesn't actually use that much distortion.

Very true!

A lot of times the tone that sounds great when your playing,doesn't sound as great when you record and play it back.Sometimes that tone that sounds great when it's only a guitar playing sounds like ass when mixed with the other instruments.

Sometimes it's double tracking that makes guitars sound so sweet.

Maybe you won't be able to get what you're listening for with what you've got,but geez,you should be able to get something usable out of that set up.

 

[Micter]

Good tone and metal zone don't belong in the same sentence. There lies the problem without a doubt. I would try to work with the amp's natural distortion.

 

[scrubs]

i tried everything, but i can't seem to produce a killer distortion sound out of my guitar. i use a les-paul studio into fender hot-rod deluxe (40 watt tube),and using BOSS metal zone pedal, and overdrive pedal.

i tweaked knobs, tried different settings....but did not get anywhere - i mean distortion all right, but i dont like it.

i was thinking maybe this specific amp is not meant for distortion at all, and i should get myself a MARSHALL amp...one of these jcm2000....??

What type/style of sound are you going for? IMO, most good distortion tone comes from the amp, not pedals, but pedals can be used to add a little something. However, if you're going for a heavily distorted metal tone, LP into a Fender may not be the ticket. Get a Mesa/Marshall for that. I would leave the pedals out unless they are an integral part of "your sound."

 

[legionserial]

Good tone and metal zone don't belong in the same sentence. There lies the problem without a doubt. I would try to work with the amp's natural distortion.

Agreed. I would take the metal zone out of the chain. try to work your amp's distortion first and foremost, and and if you need a little more, try to push it a bit with the OD pedal. Push the distortion till it becomes saturated, then back off a tiny bit. I play mostly metal, and I always try to use as little distortion as possible to get the job done. Obviously its still a fair amount, but definitely not near as much as it sounds with 4 tracks going at once. You should should be able to get some sweet tones with that guitar and amp.

As last ditch you could always try scooping out the mids.....



...*looks around then runs away to avoid impending torches and pitchforks*....

(playing on your own it'll sound ok but won't cut through live or in a mix)

 

[TelePaul]

Well first off, the best distortion is produced by a good quality amp, tube usually. Now you are using stomp boxes and they usually don't produce the best tone.

Tube amps aren't designed to distort, they're deisgned to saturate and naturally overdrive. Seriously guys, there is a huge difference between overdrive, distortion and fuzz. Its all to do with the extent of the clip (I'll try post a graphic representation of this if I can). Basically, in fuzzboxes and solid state distortions, the signal is boosted, and the tops of the waveform clipped off. This is usually achieved by either amplifying the signal to a point where it must be clipped to the supply rails, or by clipping the signal across diodes that short it to supply rails. In Tube Vaccum Overdrive, the top of the wave form is compressed, thus giving a smoother distorted signal, that retains more of the original waveform.

Distortion is more gritty sounding, while overdrive is warmer. You can cook those tubes on the clean channel and get a very rich and full sounding drive, but I think the lack of distortion could be down to your amps' channel. If you consider stereotypes a moment, fenders are reknowned for a clean tone, where-as a marshall is the first call for distortion. Think Princeton v Plexi, its why Zakk Wylde uses a JCM 900!

''Now you are using stomp boxes and they usually don't produce the best tone'' - In my opinion, this just isn't true. I've picked up a good few stomp boxes and love the tone they give me. I'm guessing that by owning a Metal Zone you're obviously after metal tones. This pedal will boost the bass and treble, and cut the mids. Are you sure this is what you're after? I run a Boss SD 1 as a booster into a DS 2, then tidy up my sound on the other side with an Equalizer. I'm running through a solid state Marshall, and I'm consistently impressed with the quality of the sound. I really think it's your amp. Judging by the fact you're playing humbuckers with a metal zone, I think you'd eb better with a Marshall TSL or JCM.

 

[myhatbroke]

Ofcourse you can find great tones with stomp boxes but it is alot more work.

 

[amra]

I disagree that you can find great tone with a stomp box. IMO, great tone come from the amp, though you can modify it in some way with stomp boxes to make it specifically more what you are after. None the less the tone comes from the amp.

Now I am sure you can eventually find a way to get a heavy tone out of a hot rod deluxe. But I am also sure you could hammer a nail with a screwdriver. Not the right tool for the job though, and neither is the hot rod if you are trying to get a sound like a JCM 2000. If you can't swing the price for a full on marshall stack, then maybe a JCM combo?


p.s.
Telepaul: I agree with the point you are making, but I thought I should point out that Zakk plays a JCM800..they do sound different.

 

[TelePaul]

I disagree that you can find great tone with a stomp box. IMO, great tone come from the amp, though you can modify it in some way with stomp boxes to make it specifically more what you are after. None the less the tone comes from the amp.

.

Okay, lets consider this. Tone is a manifestation of MANY things; great tone comes from the amp? What about the guitar? And how do you define tone? Gain staging? Equalisation? Modulation? If I found an amp that gave me all that 'tone', I wouldn't bother with signal processors (the whole point of which is to process the signal.)

I suppose that tone is an utterly subjective thing anyway; what you might consider amazing, someone else might class as woeful.

yeah, did Zakk work with Jim Marshall on the new JCM series?

 

[myhatbroke]

Check out the Randall RG75D that's what I have and it has a nice metal tone.

 

[andyhix]

I just bought a Hot Rod Deluxe 2 days ago, literally. I haven't had a lot of time to get a feel for the on-board sounds, but one thing I keep reading over and over again on various websites is that the groove tubes are kinda sub par. I'm already planning on upgrading, and am looking at the kit available from Eurotubes.com, specifically pieced together for this amp. Check it out. Also, check out this website: http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/ - TONS of info about your/my amp, including enough to convince me, at least, to retube. Now, all that being said, if you are looking for more of a distortion sound than a good overdrive, you still might need to work in a stomp box or two.

 

[Codmate]

I had Groove Tubes in my Vibrolux until last year when it had an 'accident'.

I got some nicer tubes from Watford Valves and my amp sounded twice as good and was much less hissy. I got a Mullard, some EHs and some Phillips for the power stage. Sounds amazing now!

My opinion of the 'Groove tubes' has been pretty low since changing them for something better.

 

[Rokket]

Are you looking for a good recorded tone, or a good live one? They are 2 totally different animals.

A good recorded tone means more master volume and less gain. If you overdo the gain, the result will be a totally fuzzy tone. Even a Marshall can sound like crap if you overdo it recording.

Now live use, I would do away with the stomp box and tweek the amp itself. Don't just tweek the distortion or saturation settings, work on the e.q. settings on the amp, keeping in mind that guitar is a mid range instrument. Boosting the bass and cutting the highs can beef up the distorted tone.

 

[earworm]

i've tried handsful of all sorts of pedals, 19" rack gear, overdriven eqs...
and nothing sounds as fat as our real amp, its only a marshall jcm900, not the best in the world, but connected to a REAL nice Hiwatt cabinet.
turn the preamp ALL the way open, same for the gain and keep the master low

to my ears all pedals lack deepness, they might give sick distortion, but thin, like "too digital" and harsh

overdrive a nice tube amp as hard as possible and i think u'll like it,

then put a mic in front of the cab, a nice eq on the insert (like an orban 642b) and you can shape the distortion to what u want

thats my rule: distortion & clean sounds: always the amp,
all FX, solos, special thingies can be done trough pedals

 

[Elton Bear]

You do realise a Marshall 900 uses diode distortion not tube overdrive right? 'Coz that sorta wrecks your point...