Did i do something wrong to have the levels i got?

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Fetusborg

Fetusborg

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hi
so im recording a simple rock tune (drums on FL Studio, real base, real guitar 1 and 2, and real vox). due to the lack of money and equipment, im lining out from my amp into my SB LIVE sound card, and getting results im happy with.

so heres my step be step, and i fear i might be doing something wrong. because in my sequencer (Kristal Audio Engine), my master level is at -12,8 dB! i read here at homerecording that the ideal level is 0 dB.

this puts me in a predicament.

on a rough average, my 14 tracks of recorded material are at -6dB. some stooping way below that though.

so, my step be step: recording guitars, bass and vocal into sound forge, and then normalizing to 0 dB. (maximize peak value preset). some dont even get to 0dB, but ok. then i open up the .wav file in kristal. and adjust my faders.

it all sounds good and well, despite some clipping (inaudible actually) in 3 tracks and also the master.

am i doing something wrong? or is it ok to have my master level where it is?
when i render to .wav or .mp3 to hear on my player... the volume is low.

what should i do?


thanks
 
The bottom line is if it sounds good don't worry to much and don't obsess over volume (there was a good and at the same time pretty funny thread on this recently).

When you say "at -12db" do you mean averaging or peaking? If you're averaging between -12 and -8 then that's a pretty sensible tracking level. In fact I'm unsure why you're clipping at all recording at those levels?

Trying to track as near to 0db as possible isn't too wise because it means you're much more likely to clip and you'll also have no headroom to play with at mixdown.

If you're after a decent quality end product with a reasonable volume level then you should get your stuff mastered. There's a lot more to it than getting the volume up but that's a part of it.

If you're not taking things too seriously at this stage then you could just use a limiter on the master bus to bring the overall volume up a bit.

The Kjaerhus Master Limiter is a pretty decent freebie:

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-master-limiter.php

You shouldn't need to normalise anything.
 
well... my fader is on at -12 dB. but on a few occasions during the 2:40 minute song, the master clips... which from what i figure, at over +6 dB. so i guess that means its peaking at +6 right? (im not too good at this)

why shouldnt i normalise?

i really am taking the recording seriously, i want the best product i can get. i don't discard mastering. in fact, i most likely WILL master. but will keeping my levels how they are influence how good the mastering will come out?
i figure even after mastering, i'll still be at a low volume level.

thanks for the limiter.
now, if i use the limiter, whats that got to do with mastering?
 
Normalizing is bad (just trust us on that one, eh?).

Limiting the master buss is bad if you're ever going to have it mastered - It SEVERELY limits the M.E.'s opportunity to tweak.

You probably would be best off raising your master fader to unity ("0"). However, think of your levels this way - If most of your tracks are coming in around -6, just two of them hitting at the same time WILL clip the buss. I'd start with your mix faders at around -12 and go from there - The idea is not to clip ANYTHING, ever. Don't worry about volume until the mastering phase - even if you're doing it yourself. Give yourself a decent mix to work with from the start.
 
Fetusborg said:
well... my fader is on at -12 dB. but on a few occasions during the 2:40 minute song, the master clips... which from what i figure, at over +6 dB. so i guess that means its peaking at +6 right? (im not too good at this)

why shouldnt i normalise?

i really am taking the recording seriously, i want the best product i can get. i don't discard mastering. in fact, i most likely WILL master. but will keeping my levels how they are influence how good the mastering will come out?
i figure even after mastering, i'll still be at a low volume level.

thanks for the limiter.
now, if i use the limiter, whats that got to do with mastering?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you didn't care about the quality of your recordings. I meant if you can't afford to send your stuff to a professional mastering engineer then the limiter is a tool you could use to bring the overall level up yourself.
 
ah, i get it.
the limiter is the home made mastering :rolleyes:

and if you limit and master, you're screwed. cool.


damn, i normalised all my tracks. the guitars and bass and vocal. but i dont think its sounding bad.

i tested out the limiter you gave me.
thresholded it to 0 dB... and raised my master level to -4.7 dB.
im not clipping anywhere anymore...except for a few times onthe vocals. but thats just cause i sang it wrong, and am gonna re do it.

the song hot pretty hot. it definatly sounded different. but im not sure if better different or worse different.
 
Fetusborg said:
the song hot pretty hot. it definatly sounded different. but im not sure if better different or worse different.
Click to expand...

Yeah if you overdo it with the limiter it can start to sound pretty crappy. Try not to worry too much about getting it as loud as possible. Good sound quality is more important than volume.
 
yeah, i guess you're right. takes me some time to accept that though.

cause what im looking for is as professional, yet, as lo-fi as i can get it. since its all done at home, i dont really want to hide that fact. want people to actually KNOW i did this at home, but still sounds very pleasing.

i will be getting radio play, as ive got a friend, etc, and im not sure how the track will hold up, if i DONT master (which is a great possibilty as it costs money).
 
Fetusborg said:
yeah, i guess you're right. takes me some time to accept that though.

cause what im looking for is as professional, yet, as lo-fi as i can get it. since its all done at home, i dont really want to hide that fact. want people to actually KNOW i did this at home, but still sounds very pleasing.

i will be getting radio play, as ive got a friend, etc, and im not sure how the track will hold up, if i DONT master (which is a great possibilty as it costs money).
Click to expand...

Bear in mind most radio stations (even the small ones) will have compressors and limiters to raise the level of material prior to broadcast as well.

Hopefully when your stuff comes on everyone will just want to crank it up regardless. :D . Good job on getting some airplay.
 
oh i hope !! :rolleyes:

thanks for tips man
(another battle has been won today for me and my home recording adventures :D )
 
Fetusborg said:
...damn, i normalised all my tracks. the guitars and bass and vocal. but i dont think its sounding bad...
Click to expand...
The point is not that ab-normalizing ( :rolleyes: ) sounds bad, it just one more unneeded process on your sound, and in fact contributed to your final mix being too hot, and having to pull the master way down to get back to useable healthy mix level.
Better to record at decent levels (meaning leave some headroom below zero on the tracks), leave them be and pull them down at the track faders (one process instead of two -abnormalizng up and back down to boot) as needed to let the master come in at or a bit below zero.
Happy Audio. ;)
Wayne
 
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