Delta WDM - Problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter bdemenil
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I'm definitely not unhappy with my Delta 1010 and I do recommend them to anyone who asks. I was merely clarifying that some here are talking about this as splitting hairs and I don't think that's the real topic of discussion. No worries man, I love the Deltas and hope to continue to have a great time using them :D
 
Yeah! It's dumb to expect something you paid hundreds of dollars to work correctly! Suck it up and be a man!
I was going to construct a lengthy reply to this, but then I realized that you haven't read anything else in this thread anyway, so why bother?

I assume yours don't work? If so, then you have a right to complain, but can't the ones that are happy with the card just be happy with the card, instead of making them measure latency and other stuff that really doesen't matter if the card works?

M-Audio is loosing customers by not having drivers that work! As I said, I didn't buy it because of the drivers...
 
moskus said:


I assume yours don't work? If so, then you have a right to complain, but can't the ones that are happy with the card just be happy with the card, instead of making them measure latency and other stuff that really doesen't matter if the card works?

M-Audio is loosing customers by not having drivers that work! As I said, I didn't buy it because of the drivers...


Where in the hell did anyone say that the 1010 is a bad product, or that anyone should be unhappy if they own one?

Slackmaster2K and bdemenil have found and documented what they believe to be a problem with the WDM drivers. It has nothing to do with latency. This thread was an attempt to see if anyone else is interested in helping to confirm that problem. It's called the scientific method.

If you're not interested in helping the guy with his problem, what is the point of talking a bunch of shit to him?
 
Lame Thrower,
I would love to hear your response, do you have something of substance to say?
My point is if imperceivable latency is your best reason not to buy a delta product you quiver must be all out of arrows.
Name calling is the refuge for those who do not have a point to make.

I guess I'll hold out for a soundcard with negative latency...it plays the music before you do!
I guess they would call them esp drivers.
 
Oops I was two finger typing at the same time you were posting that reply was much better.
 
acidrock said:
My point is if imperceivable latency is your best reason not to buy a delta product you quiver must be all out of arrows.

This problem has nothing to do with latency. I own a Delta 1010, so the last thing I want is for prople to stop buying them. The more people have them the better they will be supported.

Edit: Nasty things omitted

For the record, my original post wasn't directed at you, but at those other dumbasses. :cool:
 
I hope I'm not being one of those dumbasses :eek:
I see the points of both and was only trying to weed through to the original purpose of the thread :)
And I apologize if none of your comments were directed at me

Love the new avatar ACIDROCK
GREEN, GREEN, GREEN.....GO PACK! :D
 
Barometer said:
I hope I'm not being one of those dumbasses :eek:
I see the points of both and was only trying to weed through to the original purpose of the thread :)
And I apologize if none of your comments were directed at me

None of mine were. I like you Barometer. Especially the way you tell us the atmospheric pressure. That's very helpful. :)

I won't speak the names of the aformentioned dumbasses, lest they hear me and clutter up this potentially useful thread with more crap than I already have.
 
I've never noticed this latency with the WDM drivers and the Delta 1010. What I HAVE noticed is that they don't work in 24 bit resolution while MULTITRACKING. Why the fark did I buy a 1010 if I didn't want to actually use all those inputs at the same time? I could have picked up a GINA 24 for less! Even a Lynx ONE! Both are cleaner (lower noise floor) cards hands down!

The WDM drivers work fine for a stereo pair but blow chunks recording anything more (at 24 bits; seems to be OK at 16, but FUCK- this is supposed to be a 24 bit card!!!!). The ASIO drivers work as advertised, but I've only used one application that supports them, and I hate their interface with a passion: Logic Audio. Does 8 at once at 24/96 no problemo.

I'm convinced that XP has a filthy butt-scratching finger in this stew because I've not heard reports of (these) problems with the drivers under 98 and ME.
 
Lame Thrower said:
Yeah! It's dumb to expect something you paid hundreds of dollars to work correctly! Suck it up and be a man!

All these dumbasses are right!


If you want to start pointing fingers at bad manufacturers, start with Aardvark, not M-Audio. At least M-Audio customers using 2000 or XP weren't left out in the cold with NO drivers for close to a year...

My Audiofile works as promised and I have no issues with it, if you have issues with other Delta cards, make a specific complaint rather than starting a thread called "Delta - WDM Problem"
 
I've recorded buttloads of music using my Delta 44 under winxp with WDM drivers. Haven't noticed any poblems but haven't performed the exact tests described in the linked thread. When I get some time I'll perform them and report back. I do think the repsonses I read from Delta techs in the thread are lame. ACPI, IRQ's, etc.. are a copout.
 
... Let's clarify something. The problem refered to is not 'latency' in the classic sense. It is an actual physical, permanent offset in newly recorded tracks (relative to those previously recorded).

The problem is not inconsequential. Under the Delta control panel's default buffer setting, you would get about 10ms of offset (3ms under smallest possible buffer). This amount, while not obvious, is definitley enough to have an audible affect on music. You could very well be working with this kind of offset without noticing it though. It took me a few projects before it came to my attention. I realy only noticed because I started using high buffer settings.

While the delta series soundcards do deliver good quality for their price, this is a serious problem. It does not speak highly of maudio that it has escaped their notice for so long. I also have to say that in my conversations with several different maudio testers and tech support people, they demonstrated an extrordinary lack of understanding for the product they are supporting.

Finaly, whatever cakewalk or sonar is reporting as your 'latency' has nothing to do with this issue. If you would like to test for this problem, run the test described by Slackmaster and myself in the original thread.

As others have pointed out, please don't spam this thread. If you have a serious criticism, please first read the original thread and try to understand what we are talking about.
 
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Where in the hell did anyone say that the 1010 is a bad product, or that anyone should be unhappy if they own one?
Indeed!

Ok, I give up now...
 
Slackmaster has explained in detail here what's really going on...
 
I have to agree with bdemenil, and have been trying to get back to the original problem ever since people seem to want to say that it doesn't really matter. If it doesn't matter to you than you should not be posting on this thread. I have not noticed MYSELF a problem like this yet but am in the process of setting up for the test that Slack described. I am concerned enough with the reports that I do not want to coninue with a "seemingly" unnoticeable problem if it is really there. My ears are no computer. If this doesn't concern others that's great, continue to make music. :)
 
I ran the test in my Delta 44, and I seem to have the problem. I measure the offset at 8ms. :( Kind of upsetting, but, since I didn't notice it before, I'm not going to let it keep me from recording. I may scoot all my tracks back by 8 ms, though. :) Hopefully MAudio gets on the case and fixes the problem.
 
A little OT, but...

If it doesn't matter to you than you should not be posting on this thread.
Yes, ok, I went over the line, sorry :(. It's just irritates me when one part of a discussion doesen't see the problem, and then "the other part" start calling people dumbasses...

That was totally uncalled for!



I've read many places about bad M-Audio drivers. Some have problems, other don't.
 
cominginsecond said:
I ran the test in my Delta 44, and I seem to have the problem. I measure the offset at 8ms. :( Kind of upsetting, but, since I didn't notice it before, I'm not going to let it keep me from recording. ...

Could you post the specs on your PC (Hardware, OS, Software, ect). Also, please include what delta buffer settings you are using. Finally, if you can, try changing your buffers(on delta panel - best would be to put them all the way up) and running the test again to see if this changes your offset. If so, that would confirm that you are experiencing the same problem.

Thanks for running the test.

Ben
 
Could you post the specs on your PC (Hardware, OS, Software, ect).
Sure.

Hardware:

Athlon 1600 XP processor
256 MB DDR ram
Spacewalker KT 266a Motherboard
Two Western Digital Hard Drives, one 20 GB and one 60 GB
Delta 44
Plexwriter 12/10/32A CD writer

Software:

Sonar 2.0

OS:

Windows XP.

Also, please include what delta buffer settings you are using.
I was using 384 samples as the buffer.

Finally, if you can, try changing your buffers(on delta panel - best would be to put them all the way up) and running the test again to see if this changes your offset.
I reduced it to 64 samples, and the offset was reduced significantly. I would say it's down to 1/5th of what it was.

Has anyone done this test running MME drivers? I'm wondering if the problem is limited to the WDM.
 
There seems to be problems with part of microsofts WDM audio system called the kmixer. I have seen somewhere a few manufacturers of pro soundcards are using there own version of wdm which avoids kmixer - perhaps that's the cause of the offset and not something normal wdm drivers can have any control over?

I also note in the driver history for the delta cards there is mention that...
"Note: to avoid slipping of track sync in Cakewalk 9 please set playback/record Timing master
to last port used (for example if you're using channels 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 set 5/6 as Timing Master)"
I wonder if this has any bearing?

There is also the matter of the extra "multichannel" drivers. These were introduced for use with Sonar when 2 or more delta cards are installed. I think you should deselect these if you only have one card? I have but I've yet to carry out the "offset" test but I'm sure I'll find one!
 
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