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ericlingus
New member
Yeah so I guess i'll just go from the left out of the vamp to the line in on my firebox. Thanks
Bloodsoaked
Death Metal Freak
How important is it to have a mixer/preamp? Also, why would I need a MIDI sequencer for drum machine tracks?
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
Bloodsoaked said:
Well, you need a pre-amp to amplify the level of your microphones. Whether you use a stand alone preamp or a mixer depends on how many pre-amps you need and whether or not you want to "mix" something with it.
You need a MIDI sequencer because any good drum sampler software is programmed with MIDI. A drum machine is never going to compete with a good software sampler like DFHS or BFD.
legionserial
New member
Question about programming drums while we're on the subject.
I program my drums by just dropping wav files for each individual hit straight into Cubase, and then obviously making neccessary adjstments for realism.
Is there anything not so good about doing this as opposed to using a sampler like DFH or something. I'm pretty happy with the sound I get, the wavs I have are of a very nice quality, and I dont mind the time it takes, but just wondering if a sampler would drastically improve my sound at all?
I program my drums by just dropping wav files for each individual hit straight into Cubase, and then obviously making neccessary adjstments for realism.
Is there anything not so good about doing this as opposed to using a sampler like DFH or something. I'm pretty happy with the sound I get, the wavs I have are of a very nice quality, and I dont mind the time it takes, but just wondering if a sampler would drastically improve my sound at all?
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ericlingus
New member
I would like to know how to get a better sound with my Vamp2. I like my sound right now but wondering if there are ways to make it even better? Also, wonder if I double mic my amp or use both line outs on my vamp2? I would record in stereo then but then I wouldn;t be able to pan it hard left or right. Explain to me how this works. Also, how do you program drum fills like a tom roll or something? Something pretty intricate using sounds from my triton LE and sequencing in cubase LE. Are samplers easier to program with? Could you also explain how you make your drum beats, step by step. I'll really really appreciate it! thanks in advance.
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
legionserial said:
Well, I honestly can't imagine being able to deal with the time that would take doing it your way.....wow!
With DFHS you get all the microphone bleed, all the dynamics of every drum, every nuance of a real drum performance basically. And more than anything, you get a realistic image from your overhead and room mics. I can't help but think that from that alone the difference would be pretty dramatic. In my opinion, the most important factor in achieving a realistic sound with programmed drums is to have a wide range of different hits at different intensities so that it actually sounds like a real drum kit instead of a machine.
For absolute realism there is just no comparison.
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
ericlingus said:
I have a V-amp pro that I use for scratch tracks sometimes. It sounds decent, but not great in my opinion. As far as how to get a better sound out of your V-amp 2....I don't know. All you can do is experiment. Don't bother recording in stereo from your V-amp. Record in mono and then layer your performances a couple times. Use a different sound on the V-amp for each performance. For example, dial in a good sound and then record two performances, pan one left and one right. Dial in a new sound, perhaps with less gain or more high end, perhaps use a different cabinet model this time, and then do two more performances and pan one left and right. You could do this several times if you wanted, as long as the sounds mesh well together and don't get muddy.
As far as drum programming goes, I talked about this already. I program averything one hit at a time with the mouse in Sonar's piano roll view.
I'm not sure what kind of step by step direction you're looking for beyond that. Are you familiar with MIDI programming like this? I just come up with a beat and then draw it in hit by hit. When I do rolls, there is no difference. I just think about how a real drummer would hit the drums and visualize a cool pattern and then I draw it in hit by hit. You have to have some knowledge of drumming to do this convincingly. I'm not sure what else you want to know about this process. You could ask something more specific if you want.
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El Jefe
New member
Bloodsoaked, sounds good. I would suggest that you dump the metal zone, alot of people i've known have gotten real close to a decent tone with those...save yourself from the torment. 
And of course mic placement makes a huge difference. Overall it sounds pretty good to me.
metalhead, I like your stuff alot too. I don't usually listen to Death or Black Metal, but i liked both tunes alot.
And of course mic placement makes a huge difference. Overall it sounds pretty good to me.
metalhead, I like your stuff alot too. I don't usually listen to Death or Black Metal, but i liked both tunes alot.
legionserial
New member
metalhead28 said:Well, I honestly can't imagine being able to deal with the time that would take doing it your way.....wow!
With DFHS you get all the microphone bleed, all the dynamics of every drum, every nuance of a real drum performance basically. And more than anything, you get a realistic image from your overhead and room mics. I can't help but think that from that alone the difference would be pretty dramatic. In my opinion, the most important factor in achieving a realistic sound with programmed drums is to have a wide range of different hits at different intensities so that it actually sounds like a real drum kit instead of a machine.
For absolute realism there is just no comparison.
Ah it doesn't really take me an amazing amount of time anymore. I'm pretty well practiced at it now. I do have tonnes and tonnes of samples of the same live drums at different intensities etc. Once its all laid out I go through with a fine tooth comb with the mindset "could a drummer play this".
I would say its the cymbals I probably have to work hardest at, just getting them to flow together well, instead of sounding like samples on a repeat loop if you get what I mean. By the end of it, it all comes out pretty nice sounding and pretty human.
However, if I can dramatically cut down the time it takes then it might just be worth it. Even though I'm well practiced at it now and the time doesn't bother me too much, I have to say that it requires just a little bit more motivation to get off my arse and program some drums. Generally I have to get slightly intoxicated in someway because it can be so damn monotonous, but I do get a real kick out of the end result.
I'll probly look into getting DFH when I can afford it. Maybe...
Edit: oh one other thing. What does DFHS have over DFH2? I have noticed a huge difference in price...also, would I still be able to control each different drum as a separate track in cubase?
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
legionserial said:
DFHS has it's own sampler program, way more adjustablilty over the kit as far as volumes and things on individual mics. Also in DFH2 you have only one drum kit. DFHS has dozens of pieces to chose from. You also have control over individual microphone bleed, etc. DFHS is a different animal indeed, definitely worth the price difference from all that I hear.
cellardweller
New member
Metalhead~ What is in your guitar rig?
What is your process for capturing decent metal tones?
What is your process for capturing decent metal tones?
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
My guitar process would involve 2 mics on the speaker like the below pic.
I track two performances with the 5150 II and pan them hard right and left. Then I'll usually track 2 more performances with a different tone on the amp or with a different microphone (usually a Sennheiser e609s). I always record a DI track along with the original performances. Sometimes rather than record 4 or more seperate performances I'll just use that DI track and re-amp the first two performances through the other amps or through the 5150 with a different tone dialed in. For differing tones I'll usually do one with a pretty low gain really clear sound with alot of midrange, and I'll blend that with a higher gain sound with maybe more low-end. From there I'll just use the characteristic sound of a different amp. I often end up cutting the low mids (around 400-500 Hz) to get rid of some of the mud that you just can't dial out of the amp. Also when recording multiple tracks that range has a tendency to really pile up.
By the way, the tape in the picture is marking the center of the speaker. I put the on axis mic right in the center. I also don't like the sound of distant mics so much.
I track two performances with the 5150 II and pan them hard right and left. Then I'll usually track 2 more performances with a different tone on the amp or with a different microphone (usually a Sennheiser e609s). I always record a DI track along with the original performances. Sometimes rather than record 4 or more seperate performances I'll just use that DI track and re-amp the first two performances through the other amps or through the 5150 with a different tone dialed in. For differing tones I'll usually do one with a pretty low gain really clear sound with alot of midrange, and I'll blend that with a higher gain sound with maybe more low-end. From there I'll just use the characteristic sound of a different amp. I often end up cutting the low mids (around 400-500 Hz) to get rid of some of the mud that you just can't dial out of the amp. Also when recording multiple tracks that range has a tendency to really pile up.
By the way, the tape in the picture is marking the center of the speaker. I put the on axis mic right in the center. I also don't like the sound of distant mics so much.
Attachments
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
By the way, I don't think there is any replacement for power tube distortion. I'd rather record with the pre-gain on 3 or 4 and crank up the power section on my amp to get a really heavy sound. Especially when layering stuff alot.
That said, I usually record with the pre-gain on around 3-5 and the post gain around 5 to 7 (sometimes more).
For lead guitars It's a different game altogether. I'll record a single track with probably 3 different mics on the cab along with a DI track. That first track will have loads of gain and volume so that I can play with the feel and the sound that I am inspired by. I'll use the DI track that I record with it for re-amping with a couple of cleaner tones to lay underneath the original track. That is a good way to fatten up a lead.
That said, I usually record with the pre-gain on around 3-5 and the post gain around 5 to 7 (sometimes more).
For lead guitars It's a different game altogether. I'll record a single track with probably 3 different mics on the cab along with a DI track. That first track will have loads of gain and volume so that I can play with the feel and the sound that I am inspired by. I'll use the DI track that I record with it for re-amping with a couple of cleaner tones to lay underneath the original track. That is a good way to fatten up a lead.
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sushi-mon
New member
When will Death Metal fulfill its own prophecy and DIE !!!
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
sushi-mon said:When will Death Metal fulfill its own prophecy and DIE !!!
When are you gonna eat the peanuts outta my shit?
heh heh
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cellardweller
New member
Nice choices there metalhead.
My choices are rather limited of late, either crate or DI via Sansamp GT2.
Not that I've had time, nor inspiration to record lately though (given circumstances above).
Don't suppose you know of a good smallish tube amp, somewhat easy on the wallet that might produce "decent" results for tracking?
If not, how about "not so easy on the wallet" variety?
Mesa just seems like such overkill for me (wattage and $), though that self-biasing tube feature is a selling point for me....
My choices are rather limited of late, either crate or DI via Sansamp GT2.
Not that I've had time, nor inspiration to record lately though (given circumstances above).
Don't suppose you know of a good smallish tube amp, somewhat easy on the wallet that might produce "decent" results for tracking?
If not, how about "not so easy on the wallet" variety?
Mesa just seems like such overkill for me (wattage and $), though that self-biasing tube feature is a selling point for me....
Bloodsoaked
Death Metal Freak
What do you think about this mixer for a first mixer Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixer
What would you recormend? I am only recording one instrument at a time. ANy and all suggestions are welcome.
What would you recormend? I am only recording one instrument at a time. ANy and all suggestions are welcome.
cellardweller
New member
M-audio DMP3?Bloodsoaked said:
Two channels, phantom power, phase reverse, compatible with TRS/TR/XLR.
