dbx 286a + sm58 and boomy vocal, any remedy?

[kevin mask]

hello, I bought a 286a as my first preamp since I wanted some compression for my live vocal work and a pre that could add some clarity and brightness using a shure sm58 (which is famous for being a mid bassy mic frequency wise). I mainly sing punk and classic rock so I really require a bright voice, but sadly I find that my voice gets excessively boomy with the 286a, even when I bypass everything and leave the pre only, the HF and LF knobs are not of any help cause the LF adds even more bassy freqs, and the HF just tries to add some highs to an already too boomy sound (let alone the feedbacks that this knob creates).
My question is, to you guys who surely know how to use this machine better than me, is this boomy vocal a characteristic of the 286a or is it due to a poor setting? I really tried my best to set compression and the enhancer but it sounds like the more comp I add (never went higher than 10 o'clock for both drive and density anyway) the more pesky bassy aura it creates, don't know if the deesser knobs as well as the expander ones are gonna help me obtain a brighter sound.

I don't really wanna sell it cause it's brand new, but a friend of mine lent me a TC Helicon voice correct that has the live engineer function which automatically adjusts your voice with the same functions as the 286a, with the difference that compression here does add crispiness and brightness unlike the dbx, and it really sounds good with my voice, I wish I could have the same clarity with the 286a, so I don't really know if I should sell the dbx and buy a TC helicon for my purpose or if I just need a better setting, what would you suggest me? sorry for the long post, hope I made myself understood since english is not my native language

 

[Chili]

I use a 58 for recording once in a while and I don't know about the "mid-bassy" thing. Maybe you just need to back off the mic a little. It's susceptible to the proximity effect, so if you're right up on it, you'll get a lot more bass. I'm no expert (by far!!) but I say experiment with mic technique before you worry about hardware.

good luck and have fun!!

 

[kevin mask]

hello, I bought a 286a as my first preamp since I wanted some compression for my live vocal work and a pre that could add some clarity and brightness using a shure sm58 (which is famous for being a mid bassy mic frequency wise). I mainly sing punk and classic rock so I really require a bright voice, but sadly I find that my voice gets excessively boomy with the 286a, even when I bypass everything and leave the pre only, the HF and LF knobs are not of any help cause the LF adds even more bassy freqs, and the HF just tries to add some highs to an already too boomy sound (let alone the feedbacks that this knob creates).
My question is, to you guys who surely know how to use this machine better than me, is this boomy vocal a characteristic of the 286a or is it due to a poor setting? I really tried my best to set compression and the enhancer but it sounds like the more comp I add (never went higher than 10 o'clock for both drive and density anyway) the more pesky bassy aura it creates, don't know if the deesser knobs as well as the expander ones are gonna help me obtain a brighter sound.

I don't really wanna sell it cause it's brand new, but a friend of mine lent me a TC Helicon voice correct that has the live engineer function which automatically adjusts your voice with the same functions as the 286a, with the difference that compression here does add crispiness and brightness unlike the dbx, and it really sounds good with my voice, I wish I could have the same clarity with the 286a, so I don't really know if I should sell the dbx and buy a TC helicon for my purpose or if I just need a better setting, what would you suggest me? sorry for the long post, hope I made myself understood since english is not my native language

yeah I know about that, but when you sing live and sing mid or even mid high notes it's hard to stay far from the mic and make yourself heard with such a mic, your technique may work in studio but not live, I need a live solution

 

[kevin mask]

another question, I'd like to plug a delay into the "insert" of the 286a, how should I plug it? I read the instruction but sincerely I couldn't make heads or tails out of what it's written, it mentiones a tip, a ring etc what is it all about?

 

[Chili]

Not sure if the insert is where I would put a delay, but I guess you could. Maybe someone else will add some advice about that.

The Tip, Ring, Sleeve plug allows you to put both Send and Retrun signals on one cable. Double check, but I think the Tip is the Send signal to the delay and the Ring is the Return signal from the delay. The sleeve is ground for both. So, you will need a cable that goes from a TRS to two TS plugs. Kind of like this one:

Hosa STP201 | Sweetwater.com

 

[kevin mask]

another question, I'd like to plug a delay into the "insert" of the 286a, how should I plug it? I read the instruction but sincerely I couldn't make heads or tails out of what it's written, it mentiones a tip, a ring etc what is it all about?

on the instruction it says that the insert is when you might wanna put an EQ or a delay,so since I also I have a delay to plug along with the dbx I thought this was the right place, anyway what I've done is plugging 2 jack cables into a stereo doubler, this way it phisically becomes an Y cable, but maybe it doesn't work the same way as a real one, and this could be the reason nothing works, you confirm this?

 

[Chili]

on the instruction it says that the insert is when you might wanna put an EQ or a delay,so since I also I have a delay to plug along with the dbx I thought this was the right place, anyway what I've done is plugging 2 jack cables into a stereo doubler, this way it phisically becomes an Y cable, but maybe it doesn't work the same way as a real one, and this could be the reason nothing works, you confirm this?

Yeah, I don't think that will work. You need an Insert Cable like the one I linked to in my last post.

 

[ocnor]

yeah I know about that, but when you sing live and sing mid or even mid high notes it's hard to stay far from the mic and make yourself heard with such a mic, your technique may work in studio but not live, I need a live solution

Sorry but that's totally ass backwards. Your problem is obviously with your singing technique. If you are singing correctly you should be about 3-4 inches from the mic on lower notes and backing off to about 8-10 inches on the really high notes. You need to learn how to play the mic instead of expecting a generic compressor setting to level out everything for you.

 

[kevin mask]

Sorry but that's totally ass backwards. Your problem is obviously with your singing technique. If you are singing correctly you should be about 3-4 inches from the mic on lower notes and backing off to about 8-10 inches on the really high notes.

I'm not certainly measuring the distance with the mic while I'm singing, I'm aware of the fact that if you keep distant from the mic the voice gets thinner, but it also sounds far (and my voice is naturally very very loud, believe me).

You need to learn how to play the mic instead of expecting a generic compressor setting to level out everything for you.

if you'd read thoroughly what I wrote you wouldn't blart out useless answers, without channel strip my voice sounds ok, I only have this issue with the channel strip kicked in, in a nutshell my voice sounds better with the sm58 alone than with the dbx 286a and this sounds strange to me since they all say it's a transparent good machine, besides I tried a TC Helicon pedal that has the same functions as the dbx and my voice sounded well equalized unlike with the dbx 286, so I was considering swapping the dbx for a TC Helicon pedal, but first I wanted to make sure whether it's a matter of wrong settings or a characteristic of the dbx combined with the sm58, that's the reason of my thread.

 

[mixsit]

.. I mainly sing punk and classic rock so I really require a bright voice, but sadly I find that my voice gets excessively boomy with the 286a, even when I bypass everything and leave the pre only, the HF and LF knobs are not of any help cause the LF adds even more bassy freqs, and the HF just tries to add some highs to an already too boomy sound (let alone the feedbacks that this knob creates)..

You're sure then that this thing is adding noticable low end -or cutting highs/high mids-- with everything disengaged and zeroed out? That alone seems suspect.
When I look the thing up it says it has a low cut switch, no bass/treble tone controls, (yours is bass boost only? I've never heard of that..
I'm confoosed.

 

[kevin mask]

You're sure then that this thing is adding noticable low end -or cutting highs/high mids-- with everything disengaged and zeroed out? That alone seems suspect.
When I look the thing up it says it has a low cut switch, no bass/treble tone controls, (yours is bass boost only? I've never heard of that..
I'm confoosed.

not sure about what you just said, there's a high pass switch, but it doesn't change so much, what you call the bass and treble controls are part of the enhancer section, they are called HF and LF

 

[ocnor]

if you'd read thoroughly what I wrote you wouldn't blart out useless answers

I did thoroughly read it which seems to point toward poor vocal technique and using the dbx incorrectly resulting in squashed, muddy vocals.

iwithout channel strip my voice sounds ok, I only have this issue with the channel strip kicked in, in a nutshell my voice sounds better with the sm58 alone than with the dbx 286a

Why do you insist on using a device that is clearly detrimental to your vocals? Just admit to yourself that you purchased the dbx in error and swap it for something useful.

 

[mixsit]

not sure about what you just said, there's a high pass switch, but it doesn't change so much, what you call the bass and treble controls are part of the enhancer section, they are called HF and LF

If I'm not mistaken you said the thing is notably changing the tone balance with nothing engaged. I don't know that unit but it'd be fairly weird for 'just the preamp part messing with the tone that much.
What ever the case I would think engaging the low cut would be the first thing to do (and fairly common in live sound to lighten the tone.
Too.. maybe it's broken.

 

[kevin mask]

I did thoroughly read it which seems to point toward poor vocal technique and using the dbx incorrectly resulting in squashed, muddy vocals.

perhaps you're dumb or what, I told you once and again that I have this issue only with the dbx engaged, and yet the sm58 is well known for being a bassy mic, you wanna talk about vocal technique? we can talk about it for hours mate, but it has nothing to do with vocal timbres, a bass baritone has a natural dark and boomy voice timbre, so it really does need some brightness when singing live or in studio, that's what EQ's and these machines are there for, to adjust every voice type instead of leaving it up to a blurry mixer.

Why do you insist on using a device that is clearly detrimental to your vocals? Just admit to yourself that you purchased the dbx in error and swap it for something useful.

again and after this I'm not gonna repeat it, I'm not insisting on using a machine if it's not my cup of tea, as I said before I have the possibility to swap it for a used TC Helicon pedal which seems to sort this kind of problem of mine cause it has brilliant presets for the voice, but since I spent 230 dollars for a brand new 286a do I have the right to ask for some confirmations or tips? if you guys confirm that the 286a tends to fatten the voice well then I give up and swap it, that's what I always suspected, and if you also confirm this characteristic well I have no problem to give it back