Damn intonation problems!

[Myriad_Rocker]

No matter what I do, I can't seem to get the intonation set on my Gibson LP! Specifically the low E. All the other strings are fine but that low E is just being a real ass!!!! No matter how much I move the saddle back or foward, the damn string is still sharp at the 12th fret. Hell, it's sharp everywhere except for open.

*sigh*

Suggestions?

 

[ez_willis]

No matter what I do, I can't seem to get the intonation set on my Gibson LP! Specifically the low E. All the other strings are fine but that low E is just being a real ass!!!! No matter how much I move the saddle back or foward, the damn string is still sharp at the 12th fret. Hell, it's sharp everywhere except for open.

*sigh*

Suggestions?

What kind of tuner are you using?

Have you considered taking it in?

 

[Clive Hugh]

From memory they have saddles that are angled, I had a copy in for a set up, I unscrewed the adjusting bolt that ran through the saddle and turned the saddle round 180o, that gave me enough adjustment.

 

[Light]

You probably have to turn that saddle around. That is usually the case, and with the G string as well.


That being said, if it has an ABR-1 and it is not in exactly the right place, it will not intonate perfectly with modern string gauges.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[travelin travis]

What kind of tuner are you using?

Have you considered taking it in?

I find it pretty hard to set a guitar's intonation without an accurate tuner. Good techs have a strobe tuner that makes the job much easier. Using a regular o' tuner is kind of like trying to mix with regular o' speakers. It's a bitch!

 

[ez_willis]

I find it pretty hard to set a guitar's intonation without an accurate tuner. Good techs have a strobe tuner that makes the job much easier. Using a regular o' tuner is kind of like trying to mix with regular o' speakers. It's a bitch!

Yup. That's why I asked.

 

[travelin travis]

Strobosoft is like $50. Peterson claims that it's accurate to a 1/10th of a cent. I need to get it myself.

 

[killmachine]

I had heard the needle tuners are supposed be pretty good to use for intonating. I always just let my friends dad do it. But everytime I do my action is changed and something isn't the way I gave it to him.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

Yes, I have considered taking it in. In fact, if I can't get it fixed myself, that's what I was going to do.

As far as a tuner goes, I have a nice Korg needle tuner that I'm using.

 

[guttapercha]

This may or may not apply to this situation.

Sometimes intonation problems are rooted in technique. A string's 12th fr harmonic might match its 12th fr note perfectly on the best tuner, but sound like doodee when its being played strapped on. Here are two things to pay attention to, that might help:

1) Resting your right forearm on the guitar's body can bend the strings toward the neck, changing all of the geometry.

2) Location of fingers relative to fret above also changes the pitch. Frets are convex, thus the longer the distance from the fret to the finger behind, the farther back the string will contact the fret.

 

[Light]

I had heard the needle tuners are supposed be pretty good to use for intonating. I always just let my friends dad do it. But everytime I do my action is changed and something isn't the way I gave it to him.

You heard wrong. Digital and quartz tuners are usless for setting intonation. The ONLY tuners which will do the job right are strobe tuners. Digital and quartz tuners are only acurate to within about 2-3 cents (whatever the specs say). It simply will not do the job.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[gbdweller]

No matter what I do, I can't seem to get the intonation set on my Gibson LP! Specifically the low E. All the other strings are fine but that low E is just being a real ass!!!! No matter how much I move the saddle back or foward, the damn string is still sharp at the 12th fret. Hell, it's sharp everywhere except for open.

*sigh*

Suggestions?

Take it to a pro. It sounds like you may have a poorly cut nut or saddle slot. If the point of contact of either is on the side opposite the playing area, it will slightly change the scale length of the string relative to the scale length of the frets, making intonation impossible. This condition could also cause strange buzzes or ghost tones. If you are experiencing a strange buzz when you play the open string, it will go away when you fret a note if the nut is at fault but remain for all notes if the saddle is at fault. Either way, this repair is generally beyond the skills of the 'do it yourselfer'.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

I checked it out on another tuner and all strings were fine...however, something just doesn't sound right to me still.

So I'm probably just going to take it in to the pro's and have it looked at.

 

[travelin travis]

I checked it out on another tuner and all strings were fine...however, something just doesn't sound right to me still.

So I'm probably just going to take it in to the pro's and have it looked at.

I hope you have a better "pro" than I have in my area. I wish a real pro would open shop around here.

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

I hope you have a better "pro" than I have in my area. I wish a real pro would open shop around here.

Well, here's to hope. I'm not sure they're any more "pro" than I am...

 

[FALKEN]

man i went on my first tour a couple weeks ago and by the end of my tour neither freaking guitar would stay in tune or intonate properly!! I think the strings must have worn down...

does anybody know how you can string up a guitar and stretch it *properly* so that it won't go out of tune when you get on stage? also, is it better to intonate with brand new strings?

 

[FALKEN]

also, myriad,

you need to check your truss rod as well. it might need to be loosened.

 

[ggunn]

You heard wrong. Digital and quartz tuners are usless for setting intonation. The ONLY tuners which will do the job right are strobe tuners. Digital and quartz tuners are only acurate to within about 2-3 cents (whatever the specs say). It simply will not do the job.

That said, if your intonation is so far out that it is obvious with a tuner with a sweep needle, you can use that tuner to at least make it somewhat better.

 

[cephus]

A strobe tuner is extremely accurate and mostly useless except for in the shop. I was in a band with a guy who had one for bass and it took him forever to tune in between songs. He was tuning to greater accuracy, but I was still using some shitty-assed justina needle tuner. If we both used his lab-quality tuner, the band would have suffered despite the perfect pitch because we're a bunch of boring farts that spend too much time tuning.

The crap quartz tuners may only be accurate to 2 or 3 cents, but I can squeeze harder (or push the neck or lean back or lean forward) and change the pitch 10 cents easily. I'm not saying it's irrelavent, I'm just saying that I could set my intonation with a strobotuner and still be way off when i play out because of these other factors.

Another thing to consider is when you pluck the string with any kind of force, it first is sharp then settles to the pitch. If you tune to the settled pitch, it'll make most of the notes sharp unless they last long enough to get to the pitch you tuned to. there's a bit of play in things. I play pretty hard and find that I can deal with erring on the flat side better than the sharp side, so i have a whole list of little tweaks for good intonation that wouldn't work if you play really lightly and have very low action and low frets.

 

[TelePaul]

Hey Falken

Hey Falken, i suggest you ONLY intonate with new strings - you know thew difference all that dead skin and dirt makes. Do you play pretty hard? Or does your guitar just slip out of tune? Sometimes some very soft granite in the grooves in the nut will help - you could try a very soft pencil. What tuners are you using? As for intonation problems generally, i think a pro set up would be best...if you need a fret filed down or whatever...you could also look into the Buzz Feitin tuning system.