Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
You may as well just go buy a good drum machine and be done with it.
D
DuoToneBand
New member
I hate ppl that say, O Just go get a drum machine! Same with ppl that just program drums. Drums rnt just a rythm machine. There is soul to drums and having drums that are the exact same, (ie drum machine) through out the song sounds terrible.
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sepsis311
New member
jonnyc said:
Like i said, I'm not allowed to tune his drums... As far as recording, when I am in studios and engineers record me, i USUALLY take their advice, because they can envision the entire mix. 18 might not have been a problem if he had heads that were tuned correctly... And yea, it DID sound like a cardboard box. The heads were real loose and flabby. The drum sounded like you were hitting a head you were holding with your hand in the air. I used to work at a rehearsal/recoring studio, and i always had to do the bitch work like tuning the drums before i was allowed to do my own sessions. At the time i complained, but now i'm grateful, cause i trust my own instict as far as drum tuning. If an engineer tells me my amp doesnt sound good... add more mids, you can bet i'll add more mids.
Easto
New member
Sorry, I didn't read all the responses. But to your original post... lose the drummer! If he want's to do it his way tell him to go form another band. Studio time isn't cheap and you don't need that kind of trouble when you're monies on the table.
J
jonnyc
New member
You should read the whole thing man they aren't paying for any studio time. Its a home project. Here's an idea mic the 18 incher have him hit it a few times record it and play it back and show him how bad it sounds. Otherwise stop yer bitchin and get a new drummer. One that can hopefully take your crap. I know drummers I know how picky they are I know how weird they are I know how anal they are. Chances are you aren't going to change this guys mind he's probably set in his ways so go out get a damn drummer that suits YOU since thats what seems to matter.
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sepsis311
New member
its not necessarily about what suites ME, if my other band members were here they'd be "bitchin" too, because they completely agree.
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
A good drum machine, programmed well by someone who knows what they are doing, can be very effective.DuoToneBand said:
Good drummers are hard to come by - it's a difficult and physical instrument to play. I've had the pleasure of playing with only one excellent drummer in my life - as well as a couple that were pretty good and a few that were bad and stubborn.
Depending on the situation, synthetic drums may be what's called for. Or not. YMMV.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
Zaphod B said:
I'm a drummer. I'm also a guitarist/bassist/vocalist/sometimes keyboardist. When I'm writing a song I'll program the drums just because its simple and I can get a good sound for the arrangment. When it comes time to really record the tracks I's rather be at the helm of the real kit. Drum machines have a place. You have to decide for yourself if you can live with it.
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Well stated.PhilGood said:
Since I'm not a drummer (although drums were my first instrument), I don'[t have the option of being at the helm. Right now I'm happy with synthetics, but if I were to be doing any live stuff I'd be looking for a human!
J
jonnyc
New member
I'd get a chimp they pay more attention and can use their feet on complicated tom rolls.
G
geet73
OMG!
Did you try to actually convince him you didn't like the tom? Or did you yell at him? Or did you sit back like a bitch and wait to sign on here to bitch about it?
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sepsis311
New member
If you read my entire post...
sepsis311 said:
A
applejax
New member
geez a bunch of people need to stop taking such extreme sides to peoples stories and giving people crap for it. This guy was just coming on here to ask some questions...and he's fustrated and wanted to ask our opinions.
Now... Playing with a click track i love doing...thats just me. But I also love playing LIVE with the guitarest or bassist for that matter because drum and bass go hand in hand. So hes the drummer..and i mean hey if it means you lay down some crap take of your guitar parts to the click...then all he hears is guitar.. then so be it. Youre all musicians and you need the feel, and if one isnt getting the feel you need to all do your part and make sure youve got the feel.
And about the tom thing, there is NO specific size for any music. But some kits sound like absolute crap...so i understand...i've have to play some pretty crap drums and the toms sounded like crap. Try changing the heads and maybe getting a re-cut bearing edge like a round-over-45. You guys need to work out which drum sizes will work for the song best. Hey maybe you are right...but we can't really tell without samples. Try using a good kick mic for the lower tom also.
Just work together...and i mean the whole cutting and pasting thing... he needs to be able to play his parts down solid you know? Like if he cant play through the whole song with like maybe ONE mistake...then he needs WAY more practice. Who knows maybe a change of drummers might open your eyes for better things? Just a suggestion.
Hope I helped man
Now... Playing with a click track i love doing...thats just me. But I also love playing LIVE with the guitarest or bassist for that matter because drum and bass go hand in hand. So hes the drummer..and i mean hey if it means you lay down some crap take of your guitar parts to the click...then all he hears is guitar.. then so be it. Youre all musicians and you need the feel, and if one isnt getting the feel you need to all do your part and make sure youve got the feel.
And about the tom thing, there is NO specific size for any music. But some kits sound like absolute crap...so i understand...i've have to play some pretty crap drums and the toms sounded like crap. Try changing the heads and maybe getting a re-cut bearing edge like a round-over-45. You guys need to work out which drum sizes will work for the song best. Hey maybe you are right...but we can't really tell without samples. Try using a good kick mic for the lower tom also.
Just work together...and i mean the whole cutting and pasting thing... he needs to be able to play his parts down solid you know? Like if he cant play through the whole song with like maybe ONE mistake...then he needs WAY more practice. Who knows maybe a change of drummers might open your eyes for better things? Just a suggestion.
Hope I helped man
S
sepsis311
New member
Hey thanks, sounds pretty good. I guess I wont have a problem doing scratch tracks in the future. It would've been helpful though if i didnt have to do it on the spot. I would've like to have done them a few days before.
In any event, i have some great news. Me and my cousin (im only 22 btw) are moving into a house together, with a few friends. His father is going to be building a studio there for him, so im gunna ask him to leave me some desk room and run my snake out of the control room for me! I plan on using my laptop, and the firepod.
In any event, i have some great news. Me and my cousin (im only 22 btw) are moving into a house together, with a few friends. His father is going to be building a studio there for him, so im gunna ask him to leave me some desk room and run my snake out of the control room for me! I plan on using my laptop, and the firepod.
L
lovegoodsoul73
New member
Zaphod B said:
Enough said. The room you gain in the rehearsal space/recording booth from losing the drummer can be used by the new sofa...or more guitar amps!
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Not to mention the beer fridge!lovegoodsoul73 said:
PhilGood
Juice box hero
Zaphod B said:Not to mention the beer fridge!
What do you think I sit on??
cobradenim
New member
sepsis311 said:
I think we just found the problem. Experience makes you wise.
F
fritzmusic
Member
Concerning the original post:
It is absolutely foolhearted and insane to expect a drummer to record his drums alone from memory without anything to play along with. Are you crazy?YOU should know better than that-so that's YOUR bad. You'll waste more time working out technicalities after the fact unless he's a Danny Carey or something, it will just not work...well it technically *could* happen if you do re-takes for two weeks but do you and your drummer both have that kind of time and patience?
I've NEVER been to a paid or home studio where I've had to record my drums alone without a scratch or live with the most solid players like one guitar and a bass unless I myself wrote the song and know exactly what I want the drums to do...and even then it's hard to do. I've never used a metronome because of the MOOD of the song or song parts that utilize subtle tempo shifts and it's a waste of time to even TRY to program that crap into a computer....because it ain't gonna happen.
If the drummer performs better live than in a recording situation and you haven't already set your mind to just get rid of him, then work WITH him, accomodate him and do what brings out his best in the recording situation. An engineer should consider their jobs and methods of recording sound secondary to the comfort of the musican who they are recording.
If his 18" floor tom sounds THAT horrible, then play it back for him and ask him if he's truly satisfied with the sound. If he's not, then you have a consensus. THEN you nudge him in the direction of re-tuning the drum while YOU try different mics on that drum at the same time and work both ways towards the middle instead of wasting time with strict scientific "control" factors.
It sounds like the both of you have some major personality conflicts and control issues if you two aren't mature enough to work through a simple drum tuning exercise. How in the hell do y'all write songs after all the power struggling over technical details? Geezus Christ. The BOTH of you are obviously approaching each other the wrong way.
If the drummer just can't perform the songs to your satisfaction LIVE to begin with, then it will only be multiplied expotentially in a recording situation and you need to just ditch him if you believe YOUR abilities are better matched with a better drummer.
Hope that helps some.
It is absolutely foolhearted and insane to expect a drummer to record his drums alone from memory without anything to play along with. Are you crazy?YOU should know better than that-so that's YOUR bad. You'll waste more time working out technicalities after the fact unless he's a Danny Carey or something, it will just not work...well it technically *could* happen if you do re-takes for two weeks but do you and your drummer both have that kind of time and patience?
I've NEVER been to a paid or home studio where I've had to record my drums alone without a scratch or live with the most solid players like one guitar and a bass unless I myself wrote the song and know exactly what I want the drums to do...and even then it's hard to do. I've never used a metronome because of the MOOD of the song or song parts that utilize subtle tempo shifts and it's a waste of time to even TRY to program that crap into a computer....because it ain't gonna happen.
If the drummer performs better live than in a recording situation and you haven't already set your mind to just get rid of him, then work WITH him, accomodate him and do what brings out his best in the recording situation. An engineer should consider their jobs and methods of recording sound secondary to the comfort of the musican who they are recording.
If his 18" floor tom sounds THAT horrible, then play it back for him and ask him if he's truly satisfied with the sound. If he's not, then you have a consensus. THEN you nudge him in the direction of re-tuning the drum while YOU try different mics on that drum at the same time and work both ways towards the middle instead of wasting time with strict scientific "control" factors.
It sounds like the both of you have some major personality conflicts and control issues if you two aren't mature enough to work through a simple drum tuning exercise. How in the hell do y'all write songs after all the power struggling over technical details? Geezus Christ. The BOTH of you are obviously approaching each other the wrong way.
If the drummer just can't perform the songs to your satisfaction LIVE to begin with, then it will only be multiplied expotentially in a recording situation and you need to just ditch him if you believe YOUR abilities are better matched with a better drummer.
Hope that helps some.
S
sepsis311
New member
Hey buddy, like i said, who the hell asks for scratch tracks on the spot? Not to mention, I myself (a beginner drummer) could play the songs straight through to a click. I tired it yesterday without scratch tracks and nailed it.
As far as the comment about being only 22 and you guys thinking im inexpirienced, i worked a good 4 years at a studio in my town, the one where i learned drums. And it wasn't with no damn multitrack evironment. Yamaha 32 track board, with inserts here and there, straight to stereo dat, and cd. Sometimes were talking about 10 piece gospel bands, bookin a room for 2 hrs, and want a nice recording.
I feel confident in my skills, but not cocky. So don't always assume thast someone's age is a representation of how much they know. Btw my drummer has told me he doesnt like how it sounds and he should've at least tuned it up.
As far as trying different mics on the floor tom, i only have enough mics for the entire kit. I work my ass off to buy equiptment, and currently about to buy a firepod. So right now, extra mics is out of the question.
As far as the comment about being only 22 and you guys thinking im inexpirienced, i worked a good 4 years at a studio in my town, the one where i learned drums. And it wasn't with no damn multitrack evironment. Yamaha 32 track board, with inserts here and there, straight to stereo dat, and cd. Sometimes were talking about 10 piece gospel bands, bookin a room for 2 hrs, and want a nice recording.
I feel confident in my skills, but not cocky. So don't always assume thast someone's age is a representation of how much they know. Btw my drummer has told me he doesnt like how it sounds and he should've at least tuned it up.
As far as trying different mics on the floor tom, i only have enough mics for the entire kit. I work my ass off to buy equiptment, and currently about to buy a firepod. So right now, extra mics is out of the question.