Curing Sticky Tape Syndrome A Must Read!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lance Lawson
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Consider this for a moment about science and practice. You're forced to bail out of a crashing airplane. Now what do you want to be outfitted with..a parachute or the lyric science of why parachutes work.
 
Lance Lawson said:
Consider this for a moment about science and practice. You're forced to bail out of a crashing airplane. Now what do you want to be outfitted with..a parachute or the lyric science of why parachutes work.
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I would just want to know who packed the chute!
 
Lance Lawson said:
Nu Finish To The Rescue Must Read! - Page 2 - Tapeheads.Net
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Well, Warped Bezel appears to have gotten the dialog on a more civil track over there at least. I wonder if we can manage the same thing here. :rolleyes:

Warped Bezel said:
I think the worst problem here is one of decorum. Even if somebody disagrees with you, they are not "d*cks" and there is no Us vs. Them. I would kindly ask you to apologize. We want to understand this important concept better and are waiting for some scientific properties to help us understand. Degenerating it into a 'you can't see it so you're daft' discussion is not the Tapeheads way.
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diggy_dude said:
Well, Warped Bezel appears to have gotten the dialog on a more civil track over there at least. I wonder if we can manage the same thing here. :rolleyes:
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I don't really see that anyone here has been uncivil...just very skeptical. :)

As for all the analogies between SSS and parachutes and car crashes...apples-n-oranges...let's not go too far off track. ;)

I would like to point out (and raise a question) that the images showing the cleaning pads with a little bit of oxide smudge on them isn't what I would call serious SSS.
To me...SSS is when you try to play a tape and it just squeaks and scrapes along and hardly moves, and even after a few feet over the guides/heads you end up with large globs of oxide and goo.
Now I know "ggoat" or whoever he is...claims that his tapes were literally falling apart and then he applied Nu Finish and "cured" them (maybe resurrected would be a better word), but let's see if any one of the eager-to-try-Nu-Finish bunch can actually save an SSS tape that is just falling apart in chunks and globs.

Maybe the Nu Finish can help in mild SSS situations, because of it's sealing ability...but on more serious cases, it's no different than applying a fresh coat of paint, over paint that is already chipping and peeling. The fresh coat seals the old paint, and it looks fresh...but give it some time, and now the old paint starts to peel off anyway, WITH the fresh paint on top of it.
I just don't see how the Nu Finish would/could "reattach" the binder/oxide back to the substrate once it begins shedding seriously...same as in putting fresh paint over peeling/shedding paint.

And there are more questions:

From: Magnetic Tape Composition

Magnetic Tape Composition

libtpcm.gif


Magnetic tape is comprised of three elements: the binder (top coat), magnetic particles, and the backing.

The binder holds the magnetic particles in place, and on the tape backing. The binder records and stores the magnetic signals written to it, and determines the frequency responses, sensitivity distortion, and signal-to-noise ratio. The binder provides a smooth surface to facilitate transportation of the tape through the recording system during the record and playback processes. Three elements are added to the binder to help transport the tape and to facilitate information playback:

1. a lubricant, to reduce friction and tape wear
2. a head-cleaning agent to reduce the occurrence of head clogs, resulting in dropouts
3. a carbon black is added to reduce static charges
The substrate (backing film) is needed to support the magnetic recording layer
An optional back coat is applied to the backside of the substrate layer. A back coat is used to reduce tape friction, dissipate static charge, and reduce tape distortion by providing a more uniform tape wind on the tape reel.

These three elements: binder, magnetic particles, and backing-are potential sources of failure for a magnetic tape medium. It is important to maintain your magnetic tape by proper storage and frequent cleaning and re-certifying.
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When you add a layer of Nu Finish polymer OVER the binder...are you not screwing with the three elements that are added to the binder and serve a very specific purpose???
By "sealing" the binder...do you not also seal and thus prevent those three elements from working???

THOSE are the kinds of questions that only a true scientific lab analysis would uncover....but hey, when you got people taking the position that they got "nothing to lose," then I say "go for it"...:D...but you won't find me putting that stuff on my tapes or my transport and head-block just because of a few forum postings claiming a "cure".
 
The sterling point to remember is that the tapes for treatment have already given up the ghost. Leaving the tape as it is renders just one thing. Unusable tape. This is not about improving that which isn't broken.
 
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There was some talk in the Tapeheads thread about pre-emptively treating tape that hasn't developed SSS in order to prevent it. What's your opinion on that, Lance?
 
Lance Lawson said:
The sterling point to remember is that the tapes for treatment have already given up the ghost.
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Interesting way to put it...as IMO, your data is rather invisible at this point.

...And you don't say if it was tried it on tape that was falling apart. Looks to me you only tired it on "old" tape with rather mild SSS.

...And you have no answer about its effects on the other properties/chemicals of the binder as described in the link/quote I posted about the composition of magnetic tape.

You simply ignore those questions/consideration, and just keep saying that it works. :rolleyes:
 
diggy_dude said:
There was some talk in the Tapeheads thread about pre-emptively treating tape that hasn't developed SSS in order to prevent it. What's your opinion on that, Lance?
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IMO...that would be a dumb thing to do because recent tape production (and also certain kinds of very early tapes) have NO SSS issues...so why treat them?
If you have tapes that are of the SSS type...you probably already have the problem.

Someone dropping a few hundred dollars for a 2" roll of virgin, new tape...and then putting Nu Finish car polish on it as a prophylactic...should go seek medical help. :D
 
They lose their meaning in written word, they are Three stooges quotes .... now they must make sense. ;)
 
miroslav said:
Interesting way to put it...as IMO, your data is rather invisible at this point.

...And you don't say if it was tried it on tape that was falling apart. Looks to me you only tired it on "old" tape with rather mild SSS.

...And you have no answer about its effects on the other properties/chemicals of the binder as described in the link/quote I posted about the composition of magnetic tape.

You simply ignore those questions/consideration, and just keep saying that it works. :rolleyes:
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I can only work with the tape I have sorry. Tape that's falling apart isn't going to be saved by baking sad to say and I wouldn't bother with it anyway. The first 407 treated froze around 100' into Side A @7.5ips. It was a virgin NOS tape, This is very close to the sss level the Ampex I tossed in 1998. This tape would not have functioned without treatment. Reel 2 is a used 456 that I intentionally bought because I wanted to test a used tape. Inspection of the tape indicates 3 sections where the tape appears to have stuck to the transport in the past. The tape was about as sticky as the 407 as it came from the same era. Any tape that is going to freeze itself to the transport doesn't need to be falling apart to be judged unsuitable for use. Shredded decaying tape belongs in the waste basket. It's up the individual with the tape in had to determine for themselves whether they think treatment will benefit.

Consider if I was working with basket case tape and it continued to be basket case tape the cries of failure would be ringing from all quarters. There's a kind of triage that needs to be performed before treating tape. Not every reel will survive and not every reel has been saved by baking. You know this already.
 
Lance Lawson said:
Consider if I was working with basket case tape and it continued to be basket case tape the cries of failure would be ringing from all quarters.
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That's exactly what I am considering....that you are using tape that maybe has marginal/light SSS, which means you are stuffing the ballot box in your favor.

And what about the questions about the other elements found in the binder that you are most likely affecting with a sealant?
Nothing to say...???
 
diggy_dude said:
There was some talk in the Tapeheads thread about pre-emptively treating tape that hasn't developed SSS in order to prevent it. What's your opinion on that, Lance?
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If it ain't broke don't fix it. However I'm guilty of treating non SSS tape. But as I'm engaged in this treatment process it's worthwhile to experiment. Treating with the pure polymer does little more than coat the tape. The oxide and backing layers stay almost entirely unscathed. This BTW is how I treated the 456 I'm running now. I didn't use full blown NuFinish. However the resault sare the same no more SSS. The 456 is a used reel so I don't know how much wear it's had. It does however record beautifully so it's at least in decent condition. I've a bunch of NOS 406, 407, 456 and 357 on the way all NOS and all from peak SSS years.

Also experimenting with softer application swabs. I'm finding that getting the material on the tape is the key. Once it's on it'll set up and the cleaning passes can be gentle and perhaps serve as evening the application. I am about to spread some pure polymer heavily on a strip of old Scotch 206 just to see what puddling it on tape will cause harm after sitting for as long as it take for the polymer to either set or flash away.
 
miroslav said:
That's exactly what I am considering....that you are using tape that maybe has marginal/light SSS, which means you are stuffing the ballot box in your favor.

And what about the questions about the other elements found in the binder that you are most likely affecting with a sealant?
Nothing to say...???
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I think you're grasping at straws.
 
:laughings:

Yet one more dodge to the real questions..... :rolleyes:

It's OK Lance.
What is it that they say about Santa Clause...as long as you believe in him, then he must be real. ;)
 
miroslav said:
:laughings:

Yet one more dodge to the real questions..... :rolleyes:

It's OK Lance.
What is it that they say about Santa Clause...as long as you believe in him, then he must be real. ;)
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Maybe I'll be Santa for you and give, that's right give you a treated reel and you can see how well the talk is being walked. As I type this the 456 is running in the TEAC for the 7th full pass today. No ill effects still sounding fine. Still beating SSS.
 
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