Curing Sticky Tape Syndrome A Must Read!

[miroslav]

Maybe I'll be Santa for you and give, that's right give you a treated reel and you can see how well the talk is being walked.

Not unless you also want to send me that old TEAC...'cuz I'm not going to risk my decks!
I'm just heartbroken that I tossed out all that crappy 456 I had a few years back...I could send it to you if I still had it instead of to the landfill.

I think your guy ggoat was saying that the BASF 911 was the worst with SSS issues...which I find odd, since I have BASF 911 back from when it was just BASF...and the stuff still plays like silk.
Maybe you guys over at tapheads should stop messing with crappy old tape and just get something that doesn't have SSS issues.
It's not like there is no more new tape to be bought.

I know...it's like a lot of nostalgia induced stuff...you just gotta have the same tape you remember using back in '68 or whatever, and you gotta run it on the same deck you had back then...that's nice, from a "remember when" perspective.
Let me ask you...do you or those guys actually record music...I don't mean transferring old vinyl to tape, or just digging up old albums on 1/4" tape from yesteryear, all that 3.25 and 7.5 ips stuff....I mean do any of you guys really record and edit and mix and master, actual music sessions?
Hey, don't get me wrong, I love the old-school audiophiles. I'll take you guys over the iPod/MP3 crowd ANY day...but some of you guys spend too much time in some alternate universe when it comes to audio.

There's a little article in this months MIX magazine on the back page "Tech Talk"...it's about how audiophiles are finally coming closer together with pro audio, and speaking of MIX magazine...the guy you need to involve/pitch with your "cure" is Eddie Ciletti, who is a tech guru and does the "Ask Eddie" section. He was/is very knowledgeable about analog tape and maintenance and baking/restoring...and he probably has the ability to really test your "cure".
Plus there's a lot of pros on some other sites/forums (like I've been suggesting)...but I get the feeling that you would rather not go there, as it's easier to "wow" the home-rec & tape audiophiles.

If you don't have the guts to show your "cure" to them...let me know, and maybe I'll post and link to your stuff on tapeheads, and let them all come scrutinize your "cure".
Like I said several times...if the science and data prove the "cure" is really a cure...I'll be happy to say I was wrong.

 

[miroslav]

Well...I just sent Eddie Ciletti an email...so lets see if he decides to investigate this "cure" or not.

 

[Lance Lawson]

Well...I just sent Eddie Ciletti an email...so lets see if he decides to investigate this "cure" or not.

Great let's see what he says. BASF can go sticky. It's not common but one 1981 reel I had squealed quite a bit and yanked the take up side swing arm pretty good. Others from the same era are fine. But virtually 100% of the Ampex went south. It was stored on a bookcase wall unit never in a basement or in wild temperatures.

As for Tapeheads it's worth keeping in mind that it's a dedicated forum for tape. It is in fact the best place I can think of to discuss or demonstrate tape treatment and one of the best resources for tape related information. Most other forums that are audio oriented barely give tape a second glance anymore. This forum essentially has a token analog thread section and Audiokarma isn't much different.

The focus on curing sss IMO isn't about demanding the use of an extinct marque of tape. It's about making usless material useful again in its intended purpose. Magnetic tape continues to be produced fortunately, very fortunately but even now users are looking over their shoulders at the specter of sss. In truth very few users really trust the new stuff. So if the new stuff goes south, and lots of it has from time to time, the lessons learned now just might come in handy.

None of us know each and every process that was tried against sss. Edison tested thousands of materials for use as filament in incandescent light bulbs. Shell tested thousands of antiknock gas compounds when developing modern fuel. We don't know how many minds were officially put to work on sss. Ampex circumvented the issue in the end by changing the formula. Had there not been an alternate formula to switch to aftermarket coatings would have been much more likely to have been developed. But it was the end of the day for Ampex the writing was on the wall anyway. I imagine they breathed a sigh of relief when Quantegy took over and we all know how that ended too.

 

[miroslav]

Here's the exchange with Eddie Ciletti:

(ME)
Hi Eddie

I don't have a question, but would like to bring to your attention a certain "buzz" that's begun on a few Internet forums about the use of Nu Finish car polish on analog tapes to permanently "cure" Sticky Shed Syndrome.
I thought it might be of interest to you and that you might even want to investigate and maybe write about in your "Ask Eddie" column since in the past you've written a lot of stuff on analog tape decks, maintenance and tape salvaging with the baking process.

This current "buzz" about Nu Finish is already spreading, yet there is NO hard science or lab testing to prove or disprove it. Not looking to just dump work on you... ...but when I read this stuff on the Internet, I immediately thought that you would be the guy who could reach a scientific conclusion about it...and hopefully prevent the myth from spreading or prove it as a true permanent cure to Sticky Shed Syndrome...which would make a lot of folks happy.

Here is the link to the main Internet forum where this all began:

Nu Finish To The Rescue Must Read! - Tapeheads.Net

Love your tech articles!
Miroslav
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--- On Sun, 8/7/11, eddie ciletti <edaudio@tangible-technology.com> wrote:

From: eddie ciletti <edaudio@tangible-technology.com>
Subject: Re: Analog Tape "cure" for Sticky Shed Syndrome
To: "Miroslav"
Date: Sunday, August 7, 2011, 10:50 PM

Miroslav

I don't have time to test this theory at the moment. Baking works for me. Have you baked? Or tried the car polish?

Thanks for reading!

eddie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(ME)
No, I have not tried the car polish, but the couple of guys who are promoting it say they think it's a permanent cure, unlike baking which only holds for awhile.

I know tape isn't as hot an item in these digital times, but this car polish "discovery" is begging for some serious testing. Not sure who would be the right person(s) to take a more scientific look at the claims being made on the forums.

Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- On Sun, 8/7/11, eddie ciletti <edaudio@tangible-technology.com> wrote:

From: eddie ciletti <edaudio@tangible-technology.com>
Subject: Re: Analog Tape "cure" for Sticky Shed Syndrome
To: "Miroslav"
Date: Sunday, August 7, 2011, 11:38 PM

Start by finding out what's in the stuff - the patent as well as have it analyzed. I just find it hard to believe you can get a good coating or that it doesn't affect splices. maybe this is ok for the 'home taping segment,' but maybe not for the professional market.

Like I've been saying...you need to do a lab analysis of the whole thing.
His last line is probably 100% spot on. If you don't prove it to the pros...it will just remain a home-brewed concoction for the home taping crowd, more forum myth than anything else...which is maybe all you really desire to achieve here...?

 

[GCalo]

Now here's a thought with NuFinish.

If I wax one of my vehicles with it would I be able to play my "tapes" as I drive???

Or should I stick with CD's?

 

[Hellstorm]

Rehashing this thread five years later

Now here's a thought with NuFinish.

If I wax one of my vehicles with it would I be able to play my "tapes" as I drive???

Or should I stick with CD's?

Funny man
I found this method in 2011. I tried it on 25 old Ampex tapes from the 80's: one at a time
Method used was NuFinish straight.
Test1: Tapes played with no auditory effects, connected to a Tek 2460 scope showed no significant difference from a new tape with the same material (Fantasia)
Test2: Tapes re-recorded on with same material (Fantasia) showed no significant difference from the new tape recording. (significant defines as less than .001% distortion or waveform change per the scope and feeding the waveforms into a signal analyzer

Fast forward to July 2014: reading all the whining from 2011 (sorry miroslav) I decided to play guinea pig
Twelve of those tapes were played at least once every month or two. No degradation - no further shed. (and no - I did not have twelve copies of Fantasia, I had recorded Blues and Swing / BigBand music on the tapes)
Thirteen were left in my dry cool home basement: humidity ~30% temp 57-66 degrees And then played in July of 2014 - (yes all Fantasia from the initial tests) - plays perfectly. Re-recorded "Question of Balance" on one of them - again no issues

I had since acquired a LOT of old tape - tried the new solvent-cleaned version that Lance had posted (let the abrasives settle out) - found that it worked as well as the full application - same results as above but took less time to clean the tape afterwards (3 passes with 99& isopropyl instead of the 5 I used in 2011)

Fast forward to this month
- SAME results
- SAME tapes

Technics 1506 and Teac 2000R were used for 4 track tests, Tascam 32B and Technics 1520 were used for 2 track tests
Tape decks show no buildup on rollers, guides or heads, no gunk no slip, - just perfect (demagnetized and cleaned with head cleaner every 6 months)


SO ... what do I have to offer from empirical evidence ?
1 - NO damage to Tape decks from full product or solvent-extracted product
2 - Tapes treated have been "cured" for 5 years so far

What conclusions have I drawn from this evidence?
1 5 years is not "forever" and 5 years of storage is not "forever" nor was it "archival" - and archival storage should yield even better results, so this definitely is long term and a potential "cure"
2 - The process works. period. No ifs ands, butts or car polish jokes. It works.
3 - Just like in the rest of my life, I strongly recommend not listening to criticism of a process from people who have never tried what they are criticising - all straw men aside.

And
- Thanks Lance - I now have some great dance music recordings from the 70's and 80's from NYC, Phili and LA, and they are as crisp as they were recorded thirty and forty years ago
- And, last, thankfully, tape is still being made, Decks are being refurbished, the hobby and the sound go on.

Richard Hill

 

[miroslav]

Oh god...not this shit again.

Go to Tapeheads...you guys can all talk about the car polish "cure" and wow each other with your results.
No one over there actually records their own music on multitrack tape recorders...they just playback old 1/4" prerecorded tapes. Anyone with half a brain would never ever take SSS tape and actually record new/original music on it when non-SSS tape is available.
I would like to see you rub car polish on a 2" reel of SSS tape...and then use it on your 2" tape deck for a tracking session.

So far, this "cure" myth has been floating on the internet (well, primarily at Tapeheads) for over 5 years now, and I still haven't seen anyone seriously adopt this anywhere else on the planet.
All the tape chemists with serious college degrees, working for Ampex and other tape manufacturers over the years, and guys running the pro tape restoration facilities, and the guys in they Library of Congress, where they store millions of old tapes...haven't come up with an actual cure for SSS tape...
...but a couple of guys who hang out on Tapeheads managed to find it in their home basements.

Yup... "Fantasia"...

When a reputable, professional tape restoration facility or recording studio starts slathering car polish on their SSS tapes...we'll talk then.

 

[JonVietor]

I am looking for a way to remove the NuFinish wax from my Ampex tapes. Back in 2019, I had followed this thread on TapeHeads.net about coating the tapes with NFinish car wax and to my horror, it has caused untold damage to my machine. I am wondering how I can reverse the process by cleaning the tape during fast forward and rewind. Normally, I would use 100% isopropyl alcohol, but if there is another better solvent out there, that would be great to hear about it.

 

[JonVietor]

I have read a lot about baking Ampex tapes to get rid of the SSS. I saw some tutorials on YouTube that say you should bake these at 135 degrees in one of those Nesco Hydrator/Ovens that are white, circular, and have those extra trays for up to 24 hours! and then coat the NuFinish on the tapes followed by 100% isopropyl alcohol. What has been your experience with the length of time of baking and should I have coated the tapes with NuFinish after the baking process?

 

[TAE]

This makes a lot of sense to me. I paid a company a lot of money to bake and convert some old Sony B&W reel to reel videos I had of my band in 1977. A little shaky in parts but overall I got to have copies of a lot of special moments. They sent the tapes back so I still have possession and still have a player but really have no reason to try and see if this works... I'd definitely want to experiment on something that wasn't really important to me. But as someone who tried to play the tapes, had them gum up on me and had to clean the heads n rollers I could see how nu-finish could be a barrier for the gummy stuff to stick...We use glass cleaner when we do caulking ..we spread the caulking then spray with "Glass Wax" sold at Costco ez pz nice clean caulking joints and ez to clean up...this makes sense in a similar way...The magnetic particles are still there and being read just no more gummy gummy to screw up the heads and the sticking... Thanks for sharing the concept.