Curing Sticky Tape Syndrome A Must Read!

[Dr ZEE]

few things I feel like "saying":

1. "Pros" are no strangers to P.T. Barnum crowd. Actually that "crowd" is well packed with those.

2. I salute ALL the "kitchen-sink guesstimators" of the world. Without them we'd have no great stuff but walls and walls of Prestigious Certificates.

3. Personally if I put peanut butter (or what not) onto what ever I put it on and get a result I'm happy with I'd be happy. Having said that, I would not claim anything else besides the fact that, as we speak, peanut butter (or what not) on what ever I put it on yields a result I'm happy with.

beer!

 

[Lance Lawson]

There are probably dozens of "plastics"....ever notice how Krazy Glue comes in a plastic container and doesn't stick to it...but it will stick to some plastics.

Yes...I've been saying it all along, without scientific lab testing and data it's just a lot of kitchen-sink guesstimating....
..."it makes the tape look clean-n-shiny, therefore it must be good for the tape"...

Don't forget in your next rant to include that in spite of your opinion the treatment is working and continues to work. The first treated tape is now one week into the treatment. It is still playing normally, it still sounds fine and the tape machine is running perfectly as well. Now there are only 21 days until this first treated tape reaches the magic 1 month mark. I say magic 1 month mark because that's about the length of time a baked tape will remain stable. So sorry that the treated tape hasn't dropped down and died and neither has the deck that's playing it. Sounds a little like success

 

[miroslav]

Tell me Lance...

I saw that you posted your "cure" on a few "home" tape/recording sites, but even though you are a member of the Tape Project Forum where there's some serious engineers and tape pros...you've avoided posting anything there....how come?
Also, how about forums like GearSlutz...or Pro Sound Web where some of the biggest engineers hang...???

What's the matter...you only want to dazzle the home Hi-Fi crowd but don't want to risk the more serious scrutiny?

Let's see your scientific lab data before you claim "success", which I doubt you will ever bother to get (even if you start selling your concoction), because it's much easier & safer for you to simply believe and imply that it's working and not causing any harm to tapes or decks, rather than getting actual data.
I'm kinda curious why that is the case...?...and that's why I'm going to remain skeptical.
And you're an "environmental engineer"...??? Is scientific data gathering and proper lab analysis foreign to you guys?

AFA as rants...you've done your fair share, not just here, but across multiple forums, but of course, you're trying to create a buzz (which is a good marketing strategy if you are planning to maybe sell the stuff).

Oh...send Dr. ZEE a bottle of your concoction...since he's a fan.

 

[diggy_dude]

I say magic 1 month mark because that's about the length of time a baked tape will remain stable.

No one ever claimed baking was a permanent cure. It's intended to hold the tape together long enough to transfer it to a more stable medium.

Don't get me wrong, Lance - I am neither for you nor against you on this. Frankly, I hope you are able to recruit enough guinea pigs to provide enough data to corroborate your long-term success, or lack thereof. Sorry if I'm not willing to be one of them. I don't believe that makes me a naysayer, just cautious.

 

[miroslav]

Don't get me wrong, Lance - I am neither for you nor against you on this. Frankly, I hope you are able to recruit enough guinea pigs to provide enough data to corroborate your long-term success, or lack thereof. Sorry if I'm not willing to be one of them. I don't believe that makes me a naysayer, just cautious.

DITTO


All I've been saying is back up the *claims* with actual science.
If it's proved to be a true "cure", that's great....but to simply "wind-up" a lot of folks on home-rec forums because many are fighting with SSS, I find it somewhat irrisponsible...but it's not going to be an issue for me either way because I will not apply "car polish" to any of my tapes or my decks without solid scientific data, and I get the feeling that bugs Lance, that I'm not willing simply to "believe".

 

[Lance Lawson]

Tell me Lance...

I saw that you posted your "cure" on a few "home" tape/recording sites, but even though you are a member of the Tape Project Forum where there's some serious engineers and tape pros...you've avoided posting anything there....how come?
Also, how about forums like GearSlutz...or Pro Sound Web where some of the biggest engineers hang...???

What's the matter...you only want to dazzle the home Hi-Fi crowd but don't want to risk the more serious scrutiny?

Let's see your scientific lab data before you claim "success", which I doubt you will ever bother to get (even if you start selling your concoction), because it's much easier & safer for you to simply believe and imply that it's working and not causing any harm to tapes or decks, rather than getting actual data.
I'm kinda curious why that is the case...?...and that's why I'm going to remain skeptical.
And you're an "environmental engineer"...??? Is scientific data gathering and proper lab analysis foreign to you guys?

AFA as rants...you've done your fair share, not just here, but across multiple forums, but of course, you're trying to create a buzz (which is a good marketing strategy if you are planning to maybe sell the stuff).

Oh...send Dr. ZEE a bottle of your concoction...since he's a fan.

Gear Slutz is at this point in time So digital oriented that tape is almost something from another planet. However I may post there. The Tape Project is an interesting forum and there's enough cross pollination with Tapeheads.net that they'll learn of this. Also having two hysterical analog sub forums is providing more than enough methane emissions already.

Now you seem hell bent on the idea that I'm looking to sell something. Where have I said that? Please furnish us with any indication that this is what I'm about or what I'm leading up to. If you can't I'll thank you to keep unsupported opinions about my personal motives to yourself.

 

[miroslav]

Now you seem hell bent on the idea that I'm looking to sell something. Where have I said that? Please furnish us with any indication that this is what I'm about or what I'm leading up to. If you can't I'll thank you to keep unsupported opinions about my personal motives to yourself.

OK...

Now take it or leave it but the work will continue and don't be surprised if a dedicated product based on this material turns up on the market.

I dunno....sure sounded like you were boasting about the possibility of bringing your concoction to market when you said the above.

Were you suggesting someone else was going to do the work and bring it out on the market...???

 

[Lance Lawson]

No one ever claimed baking was a permanent cure. It's intended to hold the tape together long enough to transfer it to a more stable medium.

Don't get me wrong, Lance - I am neither for you nor against you on this. Frankly, I hope you are able to recruit enough guinea pigs to provide enough data to corroborate your long-term success, or lack thereof. Sorry if I'm not willing to be one of them. I don't believe that makes me a naysayer, just cautious.

Holding the tape together long enough to dub it is hardly my idea of a treatment. Being able to treat the original and allow the original to function as intended is a far better option. No one is a guinea pig in this. There are only reel to reel tape users with bad tape that understand the potential of this.

Caution is great I'm a cautious person and a cynical SOB as well. But what bears repeating is regardless of the caution and doubt at the end of the day I'm the one with the Ampex 407 that continues to run normally. I think that trumps most all of the other arguments.

 

[miroslav]

Also having two hysterical analog sub forums is providing more than enough methane emissions already.

You might consider adding it to your concoction.

 

[Lance Lawson]

OK...



I dunno....sure sounded like you were boasting about the possibility of bringing your concoction to market when you said the above.

Were you suggesting someone else was going to do the work and bring it out on the market...???

Because I've posted this on open forums and the history of capitalism being what it is indicates that such a product would arise from this. However and make no mistake about it I am not the person to bring such a product to market. I'm doing well enough with my own investigations thank you.

 

[miroslav]

But what bears repeating is regardless of the caution and doubt at the end of the day I'm the one with the Ampex 407 that continues to run normally. I think that trumps most all of the other arguments.

Without scientific analysis...before/after...of the chemical aspect, audio aspect and mechanical aspect....it trumps nothing.
It's just an "opinion".

 

[miroslav]

Because I've posted this on open forums and the history of capitalism being what it is indicates that such a product would arise from this. However and make no mistake about it I am not the person to bring such a product to market. I'm doing well enough with my own investigations thank you.

Well then...time will tell who if anyone brings "it" to market.

 

[Lance Lawson]

Without scientific analysis...before/after...of the chemical aspect, audio aspect and mechanical aspect....it trumps nothing.
It's just an "opinion".

I'm willing to bet you wouldn't understand the scientific data from the tests you're demanding. Do you have eyes? Do you have ears? Do your eyes and ear work? Do you trust your eyes and ears? My offer still stands I'll send you the treated reel of 407. You can feel it touch it, listen to it, and yes record on it as well. Afterwords you can swab your transport with cleaner and see what deposits are left behind. But you won't. It's easier to blow smoke.

 

[miroslav]

I'm not going to be your guinea pig...you got enough guys on the other forums willing to try, and I don't want to waste the time cleaning my deck or taking any risks (since there is NO science to back anything up).
Again, the issues that potential could arise or things that already may be happening are going to be at a molecular level...are your eyes that good, and DON'T YOU GET THAT?
Also, playing back a tape and saying "it still sounds good"...is NO measure of the effect of your concoction on audio quality. You need some lab-calibrated audio gear to do it scientifically...not just your ears.

And don't puff your chest too much, I've get a tech degree and would have no problem reading lab test data, as I am sure other people here and elsewhere would also be able to read it....if there was any data.

 

[diggy_dude]

... at the end of the day I'm the one with the Ampex 407 that continues to run normally. I think that trumps most all of the other arguments.

"Continues to run normally" for a whole week. I hate to rain on your parade, but the "end of the day" never arrived so quickly in any proper clinical test I ever heard of.

I'm going to bow out of this thread now. No point in beating a dead horse. Good luck with your experiment.

 

[Lance Lawson]

I'm not going to be your guinea pig...you got enough guys on the other forums willing to try, and I don't want to waste the time cleaning my deck or taking any risks (since there is NO science to back anything up).
Again, the issues that potential could arise or things that already may be happening are going to be at a molecular level...are your eyes that good, and DON'T YOU GET THAT?
Also, playing back a tape and saying "it still sounds good"...is NO measure of the effect of your concoction on audio quality. You need some lab-calibrated audio gear to do it scientifically...not just your ears.

And don't puff your chest too much, I've get a tech degree and would have no problem reading lab test data, as I am sure other people here and elsewhere would also be able to read it....if there was any data.

I invite you to contribute your input here Nu Finish To The Rescue Must Read! - Tapeheads.Net.

 

[Lance Lawson]

Very unexpectedly the reel of used 456 arrived this morning. After breakfast I set up the reel on the TEAC and went to work. This reel was indeed sticky. As stated earlier I wanted to treat this reel with the pure polymer. Although I had not yet evaporated all of the extraction solvent from the polymer I soaked an entire cotton swab disk in the solution then positioned it in the big window fan I’m running in the window right now. In about 5 minutes the solvent had flashed off and the pad was now only saturated with the pure polymer. I threaded the tape for treatment then ran it FF an RW 3 times with the swab clasped in my fingers across the exposed span of tape. I stopped the tape every 20 seconds to check if the polymer was still sufficiently in the swab. It was and the one swab was all that was needed to treat the entire reel. Even after the reel was treated the swab was able leave polymer on a test strip of old tape I cut from another reel. I ran the tape one FF and one RW with a clean swab to remove excess polymer. As I write this the 456 is recording and I’m listening off of the heads. The sound quality is stunningly good perfect in fact! When the reel finishes this side I’m going to check for deposits. I’m 99% certain the transport will be clean and will show only normal deposits if any at all. Stay tuned.

Ten minutes later and the reel has run one full side. The heads and transport are essentially spotless. The tape has recorded perfectly start to finish except for one glitch in the beginning where a little deposit on the tape from the previous owner’s running where the tape must have stuck to the transport. My 407 did this leaving an identical deposit. Other than that the tape is perfect and yes I would trust it to make serious recordings on! The treatment with the pure polymer is perfectly benign. It does not seem to disturb the coatings except for a VERY minor discoloration of the swab from the tape. Bear in mind this swab has treated a tape that ran high speed over it for 3,000ft and this is not a lot of material to come off of a tape…any tape. So with this in mind the pure polymer can likely be used as a primary treatment certainly as a booster treatment as many times a needed. The swab in the photo is the very swab that treated the 456.

I’m about as close as close gets to declaring that the sss demon has been slain. What is needed now is some input from other Tapeheads to confirm my results. Thank you ggoat for your amazing discovery!

Lastly the gleaming facia of the TEAC is the polishing I gave it with the pure polymer.


Setup reels for treatment

Treatment position

Detail of swab on tape

Treatment swab after treating 456

 

[GCalo]

I have a material made by Scotch that was designed specifically to clean oxides from tape.

Might do better than pads.

Anyone recognize this material?

Take a look.

Nice going, Lance. I think you also discovered the world is not flat.

You can allways tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs.

Hope you have been able to pull them all out so far!!!

 

[Lance Lawson]

I have a material made by Scotch that was designed specifically to clean oxides from tape.

Might do better than pads.

Anyone recognize this material?

Take a look.

Nice going, Lance. I think you also discovered the world is not flat.

You can allways tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs.

Hope you have been able to pull them all out so far!!!

How did 3M intend that to be used? It almost looks like the material on cassette deck head cleaning tapes. I'm finding that a cotton ball may be better for removing the excess material after application. The polymer once the coating is sufficiently thin dries/sets fairly quickly.

 

[GCalo]

I have not the slightest idea.

I was given two rolls of it by a retired recording engineer in So Cal.

He said he cut a section and doubled it over the tape as it ran FF and Rev.

All I know.

You want a sample to try?