Critiquing songs

[Evildick]

I'm curious as to how everyone has their EQ set when critiquing songs in this forum.

I keep my EQ flat (0) when reviewing songs and listen on my computer speakers. Granted, they are Creative 5.1 with a Sub but I still keep a standard setting.

When I listen to a song, this is what I expect:

-If my EQ is flat, a minimal adjustment will put it where I want it. I emphasize minimal here.

-Going from a store bought CD to a mix here, I shouldn't have to increase the volume by a large amount. No, I'm not talking about modern rock where they compress the heck out of everything. I'll let you know if this happens.

-An mp3 recorded using at least 128 bitrate. I will select the HI-Fi option from NowhereRadio or mp3.com

-A project that you are currently working on and not just a "I want a pat on the back" project. I'm sure everyones songs are pretty good but I would rather spend my time helping someone improve a mix and learn something than become a Top 40 contributor

-A response to feedback that I give. I don't care if you tell me to piss off, as long as you acknowledge that I spent my time to offer my opinions.

-Opinions are like A**holes, everyones got one. If I don't like something in a song, I'll show you the respect and tell you. You can either agree or disagree. I'm not a professional. I'm offering a set of ears and my opinion. That's all.

After reading many of the posts here, I agree with most of them. I'm just looking for a standard so that if someone posts an mp3, you can set everything to certain settings (baseline) and compare across everyone elses setups. This just gives you a number of different stereos that you can demo instead of burning a CD, running out to your car thinking it sounds good and the levels just don't work.

 

[alibish]

I need another option - I listen on headphones with flat EQ.

Alastair

 

[Track Rat]

I listen through monitors set flat on a system that I'm VERY familiar with.

 

[mixmkr]

I'll listen over monitors and/or headphones...but I'll compare them to commercially released CD's in just about every case, as I feel that is the standard that most are shooting for here. Also, I will not adjust the playback system in a way different than I would listen to a commercial CD...which is basically nada...

I'm for critiqueing standards to a degree. ...think they can be helpful in creating constructive responses. But as of late, I've just felt like talking (typing )off the top of my head and expressing the first couple thoughts that come to mind. First impressions...ya know??

Personally, I think EQ adjustment for playback of clinic MP3's is flawed, as it can easily skew the comments on what maybe is needed to "knock it back into place".

I do agree that if you simply don't like something, an explanation can be helpful as to why. ...but some things are obvious, it might seem.

My preferences....to hear the better mp3's VS the ones where they are "slapped" together....of course with many exceptions as there are some might fine players here that can prove this point (Jeff's recent Satriani post, for example). But a lousy recording (aka~ substandard playing) into lousy equipment (aka~ Dad's 4 track cassette multitracker from days of yore), with lousy recording methods (aka~ slap a mic up at the doorway of the garage), with cries as to "how can I fix this mix?"...usually ...well, you get the idea. I'll let the others more generous with their time to help on these....

 

[Flash]

I agree with leaving the EQ. Flat. I just had to check myself though. I stuck in Steely Dan (two against nature). I didn't change a thing, sounds O.K. as far as volume go's. I don't like it when I have to change volumes for different songs.

 

[TheRealWaldo]

Studio monitors, flat... For critiquing.

For recreational, I tend to juggle the EQ a bit.

W.

 

[mkg]

Waldo, recreational use is fine, but it can be psychologically addictive.


Oh, you were talking about eq...

I listen on comp tweeters w/subwoofer...not ideal, but I keep things fairly flat. I'm generally listening for content, anyway. So many good ears for mix ideas here already, somebody has to fuss about content/lyric.

Mark

p.s. I have a slow connection, so I generally download the mp3 for a listen. I can't even get a decent lo-fi stream.
The one advantage to slow download is that I can be working on a song while waiting.

 

[Kramer]

Flat EQ/computer speakers and I agree with pretty much with your whole post about critiqing.

[edit to add]I NEVER listen to anything in lo-fi.

 

[jeap]

since i have a slow connexion i listen lo-fi and comment content.

the speakers i was using were crappy so i brought in a different set and it sounds pretty decent on lo-fi...

if i try to listen hifi it takes like a half hour.

i have some really good computer speakers with real dome tweeters. theyre altec lansing but theyre the top of the line from years ago. surround sound and big sub nice sound.

i dislike using EQ.

it is kinda scary sending the mix that sounds so good in ones workroom to unknown speakers in mp3 form.

i get a really exciting sound in my basement studio with jbl monitors and 7 total speakers including sub. i always wish the listeners could hear that sound.

i dont mix with 7 speakers! its just for fun!

 

[participant]

First on computer speakers, then sometimes (if the mix seems to need help) on the monitors (in a semi-treated room)

IMO if you're honest, everything falls into place. So you didn't like the EQ advice given, or disagree? Very sorry but it was an honest critique. My small amount of ear-knowledge/training tends toward frequencies, so it's natural for me to comment on that. For instance, I'm not so clear on what produces a sometimes washy/boxy/cloudy sound... even with EQ done right. In that case, mixmkr, sam, and others with more experience in that arena can step in.

Eventually you hope to prove yourself useful... if so, your credibility increases (not to mention that when you FINALLY get your OWN stuff up here, you may get a few replys )

It feels good when your suggestions actually seem to work for someone (that doesn't happen very often, but some people here hit home runs every time (looking in crawdad's direction))


Chad

 

[crawdad]

Chad--You should hear some of the foul balls I've been hitting lately--thus no new posts.

As for listening, I play everyone's stuff through my NS10's which are set flat (as they go). I like to have a common reference for CD's, my studio stuff and the streamed MP3's. I have computer monitors but I never use them because they sound very processed. Sometimes I like to really crank things up for a listen. I like to hear it larger than life!

Sidenote: I've been swamped this week and haven't been able to throw my 2 cents in too much, but, like Arnold, Swartzennegar, "I'll be Back"

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

Flat EQ and studio monitors in a treated room.

I try to give thorough feedback. I try to say something positive and encouraging along with my generally critical bent. Much work goes into most of these recordings and some sensitivity is in order. The standard as mixmkr said are commercial releases.
I plan to be in here more than I in the past as I recently upgraded to DSL and downloads are now possible within this century.

I think maybe there should be 2 forums here, one for work which is almost ready to go and one for work in progress and maybe more of a writers workshop along with production critiquing.
Maybe we could have a homerec label of stuff that would be released by a bbs vote.

 

[Kramer]

I think maybe there should be 2 forums here, one for work which is almost ready to go and one for work in progress and maybe more of a writers workshop along with production critiquing.

Excellent ideas jusum..a second mp3 forum is badly needed for posting rough ideas and beginner attempts.......there is so much quality music posted here that most of the beginner/rough ideas are lost in the mix and leave the front page without a sound.

Good ideas.

 

[mixmkr]

Excellent ideas jusum..a second mp3 forum is badly needed for posting rough ideas and beginner attempts.......there is so much quality music posted here that most of the beginner/rough ideas are lost in the mix and leave the front page without a sound.

Good ideas.

that is potentially a good idea. But think about it...would rough ideas still be given any more attention than they are getting now...which actually seems a decent amount, more or less? Usually, the poster has a little bit to say in the initial post, but I find "front-page-itess" isn't what gets me to listen. It's actually the people who have contributed themselves on other posts, maybe an interesting post title, and people I haven't listened to yet that I might have missed somehow (by not being on the front page !!!). It IS tough trying to get to them all. It seems like there are BIG increases in submissions at times, and it is almost impossible to listen and comment on them all without eating into 'valuable' recording time!!! When I'm processing a .wav file, and have 5 minutes, I'll come and quickly look and lurk.... Then I get "dragged" away from my recording....start typing.............HEY!!!! "files done" !!!!!

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

Im with you mixmkr, I generally listen to contributing members before the noncontributing-3rd-post-am-I-a-rockstar-yet- newbies. I think the advantage of two forums though would serve the dif stages of the recording process well. The creative stage where people can critique and discuss writing ideas, lyrics (which will kill a mix faster than EQ) and perhaps some basic mix ideas. The secondary stage would be for what we discuss now...EQ, overall recording quality and final mix issues.
We have enough barely frequented forums that could be canned, (Cool Edit Pro, Fostex, Alesis, Cubase, Sonic Foundry) that we could establish another MP3 clinic.

 

[theron]

I'm lowbrow all around the horn. I listen on the same quazi-monitors I mix on (fostex ps3.1). I'm kinda use to them and as I a/b my own shit on other systems and listen to comments on my own posts, I start to know what is on my end and what is in the mix I'm listening to. Critiqueing others submittions has turned into a great way for me to train my ear and learn about my half ass set-up.

 

[VOXVENDOR]

When I listen to this stuff in the clinic... i usually listen on Phones... But if I have the chance to pu it up on the monitors, I usually do it with my favorite EQ settings...

After all,, I want to hear YOUR stuff the same way I hear all of the other cd's I listen to, and thats never flat.. I've always got it tweaked to my likings...

I don't even mix fat... I have my monitors eq'ed a bit to my likings. It's all relative... I've learned em.

 

[Peter Maydew]

I voted for monitors - although they're just home hi-fi speakers really, but they're what I mix down on because I'm used to them. I might use headphones to check the bass end isn't going pear shaped, but most of the time I like to listen to mixes on the same set-up that I listen to everything else.

 

[Evildick]

Thanks for all the replies. Many of the comments made a great deal of sense. The one that sticks out most are the dial-up comments.

The only thing I can think of is to mention to the poster (most of you already do this as I've seen through numerous Clinic posts) that you critiqued using the lo-fi version. This way, the poster isn't jumping around trying to fix a problem that isn't there in the 128 version.

The idea of an extra forum is great as JuSumPilgrim described but I remember someone saying in order to add another, one of the existing Forums would have to cut out. I'm not sure on this one.

Good point mixmkr, I agree that regular posters that offer feedback on other songs should take priority. I've recognized regulars who post and comment here and I try to make it a point to listen to those tunes first.

Vox, I totally agree. I was just trying to clear up the Winamp EQ setting syndrome of anything lower than 600 is set at +20 and the rest is set flat then making the comment the song has too much base. I suspect that your EQ settings are tweaked to taste because you developed an ear for what mixes sound like on monitors and how they transfer to home stereo.

I also think it would be helpful to include, in general, what you listened with in the critique. Monitors/computer speakers/headphones/etc.

Thanks again for all the responses.