Cracked bridge

  • Thread starter Thread starter danny.guitar
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Sorry for the late reply.

The Asian market out sells western guitars by about 10 to 1 at least the last figures I saw they did.

That is because of price not quality.

See my post above I have quoted both Martin and Taylor who will warranty medium strings if done correctly.

Yes, Martin and Taylor do. The are both North American companies. I said most not all if you read my post right. :)

If a guitar doesn't belly with 12's it will almost certainly be OK with 13's as long as the neck is stiff enough as it is likely over built in any case.

That is not always the case.

That may be the case but I still believe they have acted badly and advised him poorly. The evidence of the problem is there to see. The job done correctly in the first place would have saved all the agro.

I wasn't disagreeing with you on this point. They may have done just that. Just some bad choices.

I was just pointing out that to put it right isn't simply a case of closing the cracks with "wood glue" there are now other issues that need to be considered when putting it right. fixing a badly done repair often needs special care.

I agree if he is planning on keeping it as a good guitar but it looks like he is going to replace it. Why not try what I suggested and see what happens. He can experiment and learn. ;)

How about in a new thread sharing some pics of the guitars you have built? :D
 
Sorry again, I just got caught up on the rest of this thread. It looks like danny is keeping the guitar and going to fix it so don't do what I said. :p
As for the bolt in the neck thing. I have owned a Taylor that was bolted from the factory. Also I have seen Cort, Seagull, Norman and Washburn with bolts in the neck. As For the Bozo guitar thing I guess that is the type of guitar Taylor makes then. :rolleyes: I also have a Seagull that is the same. I work in retail selling guitars so 90% of the acoustic guitars going out the door are Chinese made. So when I am talking about most guitars I am talking about what most of the general public buys. Higher end guitars like Martin, Taylor, Larrivee, Gibson and so on for the most part handle a medium gauge string. :) I think some of use here have hi end tastes and are think in those terms when the others are just your average joe. :D
 
Light said:
.......

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13's are FINE on most well designed and made guitars.
Exactly what is a "well designed and made guitar"?...does Cort even make an electric/acoustic model worth the expense of simply replacing the bridge?--apparently the owner of this guitar has some doubt.
Light said:
Certainly, there are no factory guitars being made these days which can't handle 13's just fine.
Exactly what is a "factory" guitar?...and "why" does HR.com have so many posts asking whether or not such and such guitar is "worth" the expense of such and such repair? .....
....
Light said:
And while it is a good idea to detune a guitar if you are putting it up for long term storage (2-3 weeks or more), if you are playing it everyday there is no need to do so.
Do you really think that banging on 13s "everyday" is somehow less stressfull on the neck than simply loosening the strings and letting it sit?
 
toyL said:
I am "clueless", and yet we still have an "inexpensive" guitar that OBVIOUSLY fell to shit because the strings were too heavy...what size strings does this particular model ship with?...it's really no more complicated than that...and I'm "clueless" :cool:


Yes, you are clueless, because while the problem was caused BY SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY. What part of a badly fitting saddle do you not understand here? Or is the part where the saddle did not sit deep enough in the bridge to support the tension? Either of these things have nothing to do with the guitar, and EVERYTHING to do with a bad repair.



toyL said:
"Taylor" is the only company that I am aware of that "bolts" their necks into place as a ""standard" practice. Anyone know of some other company that does this?

Santa Cruz, Breedlove, Larivee, Lowden (IIRC, ask Muttley), and a growing number of small shop builders to boot. Oh, and Martin, on their lower end guitars (i.e., anything lower than a style 18); don't let the "tenon" joint fool you, when they come loose they pay us to, get this, TIGHTEN THE BOLT.

And of course, that is just talking about high end guitars. Most cheap guitars these days are made with bolt-on necks, including Fender, Washburn, Yamaha, lower end Alverez, etc.


toyL said:
I own a cheap ($350) Washburn that has the neck-bolt mod according to Taylor's specs, and the action on this guitar is tremendous--like playing a well set-up electric--very little string "tension", it's entirely uneffected by humidity and temp changes...in fact, I've never had to take it back to the shop ever since the mod was performed several yrs ago...and

How old of a Washburn? If it is within the last few years it probably CAME with a bolt on neck. If it is an older one, then you spent WAY to much money on a bad repair, on a guitar which should have just gone in the trash anyway. You will certainly never get your money out of it.



toyL said:
BTW--I'm very selective/careful about string-sizes--if I go "heavy" on 2 or 3, I go a bit lighter on 2 or 3 of the others.


Good for you, but it doesn't change the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. In fact, it is quite reasonable to believe that you are doing something very bad for your neck by not using a balanced set of strings. If you look at the tension at pitch of standard sets of strings, each string is at very close to the same tension. That is how string companies design their basic gauges, and while I'm not sure it matters much, there is reason to believe that not using a balanced set can cause a neck to warp.


toyL said:
I'd love to hear you explain exactly what the "major problem" is with "OVER-BUILT"--"inexpensive guitars". Could it possibly have anything to do with the materials used, design, or workmanship?

The problem with an over-built guitar? I'd think that would be obvious - they sound like shit. The top can't move enough, or at enough frequencies, to provide a decent sounding guitar. Does anyone with an IQ in the triple digits need that explained? Hell, for that matter, I'm not sure that you even need to get very high into the double digits to get that one. Sure, it is very possible to go too light, but that is rarely an issue in mass produced guitars.


toyL said:
Yes, I understand what light, medium, and heavy mean "today". However, when I first picked up a guitar 30-some years ago, lights were .008...you get the picture?...and there's plenty of great sounding stuff out there that was performed and recorded when the both of us were barely out of our diapers.


No, they weren't. I've got string packages in my shop from back when we had a shop brand of strings (made for us by D'Addario, but with our own packaging) which are older than that, and the gauge of strings from the major manufacturers hasn't changed since our shop opened - 36 years ago, this year - Extra-lights have always been .010s, lights have always been .011s, and mediums have always been .013s. People have moved to LIGHTER strings over the years, seeing as how they can now amplify their instruments, and no longer need to make their guitar so loud (the tendency of players in the 30's-50's is what lead Martin to shift the X brace back and stop scalloping the braces on their guitars in the 40's and 50's - they were spending too much money on warranty work from all the Bluegrass guys using .014 heavies on their D28's so they could be heard along side the banjos). Back in the seventies, we sold more mediums than anything. These days, we sell lights 10-1 over everything else on the wall. Back in the sixties, Eric Clapton had to steal strings from a banjo set to get a .010 for his ELECTRIC, and acoustics have always used heavier strings than electrics. In point of fact, I would not be at all surprised if I were to find out that no one even MADE an .008 back then. Seriously dude, given your complete lack of memory, you should probably have gone a little lighter on the Mary Jane back in the day.


toyL said:
Well said, Flamin Lip. Straight to the point.


Except, of course, he was COMPLETELY WRONG. Martin recommends mediums on many of their guitars.


toyL said:
Exactly what is a "well designed and made guitar"?

I know the jargon can be a bit dense at times, but really this one seems pretty self evident. A well designed and made guitar is one which is designed and built to play well, sound good, and hold up to reasonable normal use. The use of mediums is, by the way, well within the realm of reasonable normal use.


toyL said:
...does Cort even make an electric/acoustic model worth the expense of simply replacing the bridge?

One or two. I've actually seen some Archtops they made which were quite impressive for the money. They weren't Moll's or anything - hell they weren't even Eastman's, but some of them were as good as anything Epiphone puts out.



toyL said:
--apparently the owner of this guitar has some doubt.

Actually, I don't think he has any doubt at all, he knows his guitar is not particularly valuable, and probably not worth the work it needs. The real point here is that they should have done a better job of fixing it in the first place, and not having done so they should fix their own mistakes; pretty standard customer service stuff in MY business plan, though not in most of America, apparently.



toyL said:
Exactly what is a "factory" guitar?...and "why" does HR.com have so many posts asking whether or not such and such guitar is "worth" the expense of such and such repair?

You know, "factory" isn't even jargon, so what don't you understand? A factory guitar is made in a factory setting, such as all of the inexpensive guitars on the market, but also Martin, Taylor, Gibson, etc. This is as compared to what Muttley and I do, which is small shop builders doing most or all of the work themselves. "Factory" versus "hand-made" is what we are talking about.



toyL said:
Do you really think that banging on 13s "everyday" is somehow less stressful on the neck than simply loosening the strings and letting it sit?

Less stressful? No, but if you are playing it everyday you are also (unless you are really dense) looking at it everyday, which means that if a small issue comes up you can do something about it before it becomes a major problem; you can't do that if you have it in storage. Also, when guitars are put up for storage, the climate control tends to be less consistent, so you can have issues from that, and constantly tuning and detuning your strings will cause a lot of unnecessary fatigue on the strings, causing them to wear out much faster than they need to. More to the point, guitars are meant to be played - it's good for them. Your gonna spend a lot more time playing it if you don't have to re-tune it every time you pick it up. Mostly, though, you have completely missed my point, which is that having it strung up with mediums (if it is properly setup) ISN'T GOING TO CAUSE DAMAGE.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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Hoops, Toyl, et al. I ain't going to bicker about it. I'm not going to start a flaming war either You and others have been given the plain facts from two successful practicing luthiers with decades of experience about the issue. You can choose to accept it or not that is your choice as it is with others.

The plain facts are the guitar in question failed at the bridge because of poorly considered and executed repair work. No self respecting luthier or repair guy would let a guitar out their shop like that. Period.

Most all mid to large bodied Acoustic guitars built today will play fine and hold up with medium gauge strings on them if they are setup correctly and evaluated before hand by someone who knows what they are looking at. That is regardless of price or origin.

Bolt on necks are done for different reasons by many makers. From large factory production to small custom shops. They are fine. Bolting a dovetailed neck is a very bad Idea.

Most factory produced guitars are "Overbuilt" it is the nature of the beast. Whether they are Asian or Western built. No manufacturer wants guitars returned. The err on side of caution. Whether people care to admit it or not Martin have made design changes with that as a driving factor and so have Taylor. How do I know this?Because I was around when some of these were implemented and have talked with the luthiers and designers in question. They both sell them as innovations (which they quite possibly are or were but that doesn't take away the fact that the driving factor was to stop instruments being returned to the factory. The same is true when the Asian companies copy these design elements or modify them to suit their instruments. I see nothing wrong with that.

Medium strings have been 13's for acoustic instruments ever since they were introduced. Forget 30 years ago. If you were putting lights on your acoustic guitar and they were only 8's you were using electric strings.

Those are the facts boy's not opinion. Now argue amongst yourselves :)
 
TelePaul said:
Shit, I thought lights were 0.12s? :confused:

All I know is that the D15 definitely comes set up with 12s. The guy in Perfect Pitch told me.
 
TelePaul said:
Shit, I thought lights were 0.12s? :confused:
typo I suspect. As I said earlier in the thread.

12's = light
13's = medium

and always has been. Also some manufacturers have described 12's as medium/light. But I think I've mentioned that as well in this thread.

:o
 
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Santa Cruz, Breedlove, Larivee, Lowden (IIRC, ask Muttley), and a growing number of small shop builders to boot. Oh, and Martin, on their lower end guitars (i.e., anything lower than a style 18); don't let the "tenon" joint fool you, when they come loose they pay us to, get this, TIGHTEN THE BOLT.
One or two. I've actually seen some Archtops they made which were quite impressive for the money. They weren't Moll's or anything - hell they weren't even Eastman's, but some of them were as good as anything Epiphone puts out.
I'll reserve comment on the Lowden neck joint for now if I may, it will only complicate the issue further ;) But they are fine guitars and will all work with medium gauge strings.

The Archtop thing. Bill was totally anti bolt on for years. He tried a few as a result of an ongoing discussion and changed his opinion some years ago. I have to admit I don't know if he is building bolt on's now but he made some very fine instruments a while ago with a bolt neck.

If you look at the tension at pitch of standard sets of strings, each string is at very close to the same tension. That is how string companies design their basic gauges, and while I'm not sure it matters much, there is reason to believe that not using a balanced set can cause a neck to warp.
A very good point well made.
Actually, I don't think he has any doubt at all, he knows his guitar is not particularly valuable, and probably not worth the work it needs. The real point here is that they should have done a better job of fixing it in the first place, and not having done so they should fix their own mistakes; pretty standard customer service stuff in MY business plan, though not in most of America, apparently.
Exactly. Not over here either on too many occasions.
 
Anyways, the point is Dannys guitar is fucked which sucks coz he's a cool guy.
 
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Light said:
Back in the sixties, Eric Clapton had to steal strings from a banjo set to get a .010 for his ELECTRIC, and acoustics have always used heavier strings than electrics. In point of fact, I would not be at all surprised if I were to find out that no one even MADE an .008 back then. Seriously dude, given your complete lack of memory, you should probably have gone a little lighter on the Mary Jane back in the day.

Not that I am old enough to recall, but from reading too many stories about Jimmy Page, I believe that the Ernie Ball Slinkies were the first light electric set, which were and are 10s, that would have been late '60s. After that came the extra and super . . . being impressionable, I believed Page when he advised using lighter strings, so I used Ernie 8s on my electrics until I got tired of breaking strings :o I now use D'Addario 10s on electric, sometimes the set with the wound 3rd . . . and I don't bend strings anymore! :)
 
speaking electric strings: yep, i thought 10's were light, 9's extra light, and 8's extra extra light. a buddy of mine uses 8's. it doesn't even feel like a real guitar. :p
 
I can't imagine playing 8 gauge. :eek: I play with 12's because I like the tone. I may go back to 11's because it'd probably be healthier for the guitar and there wouldn't much tonal difference.

But after playing acoustic for so long, electric is so easy! My friend uses 10's and everything on that guitar is easy.
 
a guy i know has a santa cruz strung with 13's. it's a very chunky feeling guitar and sounds great. he plays it pretty light but for his style it's perfect i think. my guitar is strung with 12's and it's built very light. i'd like to put 13's on it (i've tried it) but i don't trust it to hold up. the top already has a bit more twist than i'd like it have but there's no way i'm going smaller. i think my next guitar will be something that can handle heavier strings. i like the way heavier strings sound and play.
 
Flamin Lip said:
Dude.... stop being so defensive! I dont wanna get into a pissing war about who has worked on more guitars..... but any tech will give you a major caveat for putting 13s on an acoustic. I have seen many guitars that had straight necks and sound bridges belly up or lift after ONE NIGHT with 13s on em.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE!...13s are NOT medium-size.
 
danny.guitar said:
I can't imagine playing 8 gauge. :eek: I play with 12's because I like the tone. I may go back to 11's because it'd probably be healthier for the guitar and there wouldn't much tonal difference.

That was just for electric, and yeah it was like playing overcooked spaghetti noodles. That's what I get for being young and stupid :(
 
toyL said:
PLAIN AND SIMPLE!...13s are NOT medium-size.


Are you TRYING to give as much erroneous information as possible? Because if you are, your batting a thousand. .013's ARE a medium gauge set for an acoustic guitar, and they always have been.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
danny.guitar said:
I can't imagine playing 8 gauge. :eek: I play with 12's because I like the tone. I may go back to 11's because it'd probably be healthier for the guitar and there wouldn't much tonal difference.

mshilarious said:
That was just for electric, and yeah it was like playing overcooked spaghetti noodles. That's what I get for being young and stupid :(


Back when I was in high school they had me lead an eighth grader who was thinking about coming to our school around for the day because he played guitar, and me with all my guitar connections and all. He played .008's, and he tuned them down a whole step! It was impossible to play. You couldn't fret a note without sending it out of tune - hell even looking in it's general direction would make the damn thing go out of tune. It was made all the worse by the unblocked trem he had on it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
Are you TRYING to give as much erroneous information as possible? Because if you are, your batting a thousand. .013's ARE a medium gauge set for an acoustic guitar, and they always have been.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Well, IF you picked up your first guitar at age 15, WAY back in 1989, then can I understand why you believe 13s are mediums. In 1974, however, when I picked up my first guitar, I don't even think anyone was producing 13s. Go figure.
 
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