Condenser mic distance on guitar cab

[Mike_J]

I've been experimenting with double micing my guitar 4 x 12 cab. An SM57 in combination with a Rode NT1A. While running a 50 watt Marshall head on a master volume of only 4, I'm finding that placing the mic any closer than 14 inches is far too sensitive for the Rode, even having my preamp input gain on zero.
I'm curious to hear from anyone using double micing about what sort of condeser mic distances they are using. If fact, any comments about the techique at all would be interesting.

 

[Micter]

57 on the grill half way between the dust cover and the speaker edge.
The NT1 about 3 feet back and about 3 feet above the 57 pointed at any one of the speakers.

You might need to adjust slightly for phase cancellation issues.

 

[dodgeaspen]

I am now experimenting with double miking myself. I've been told things like miking on the edge of the speak with one mic, then use another mic at the halfway point on the speak. You can vary the loudness and distance with the mics. Keep trying.

 

[Sir_Matthew]

57 on the grill half way between the dust cover and the speaker edge.
The NT1 about 3 feet back and about 3 feet above the 57 pointed at any one of the speakers.

Did exactly this recently and got great results.

 

[Sonixx]

... I'm finding that placing the mic any closer than 14 inches is far too sensitive for the Rode, even having my preamp input gain on zero.

if your mic-pre had a 20db pad, that would solve this.

seems that 14 inches back would result in a bit of comb filtering resulting in a phased tone.

 

[Sir_Matthew]

seems that 14 inches back would result in a bit of comb filtering resulting in a phased tone.

Agreed. Move the mic back. 3 feet is good, as per above.

 

[Mike_J]

I'm going to try about 3 feet next time around. With the 2 mics, I'm getting a nice range of tones. For some reason, I'm not getting any phase problems at all.

 

[witzendoz]

I use a NT1 2" from the speaker with the -10db pad in all the time, never had a problem with volume. If it's too loud for the mic it's too loud in the studio and some of the guitarists I record are loud!

Cheers

Alan.

 

[Mike_J]

Sorry for the ignorance, but what do you guys mean by -10db and 20db pad?

2"? That's close.

 

[Sonixx]

Sorry for the ignorance, but what do you guys mean by -10db and 20db pad?

2"? That's close.

a Pad attenuates the signal by that amount. many mic-pres have this ability. you can also buy them separately.

 

[witzendoz]

The NT1 I use is an early edition, I was a big fan of Rode mics from the start and one of my NT1's is a very early production.

My NT1 has a -10db pad switch that you access by removing the lower body of the mic, this comes off by undoing the knelled ring on the bottom of the mic. It may be that the latter NT1's and NT1A's don't have this feature, there is also a bass roll off switch. The NT2's have the switches on the actual mic.

Maybe owners of later production NT1's can answer this.

The reason the mic itself has a pad is to prevent loud signals overloading the mics internal circuit and to allow more control at the mic pre/console mic input.

Quite a few models of condenser mics have a pad switch.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Mike_J]

Alan,
Thanks for that. The one I use is borrowed and I'll check the mic properly for a pad switch.
Mike.

 

[N9XR]

Sorry for the ignorance, but what do you guys mean by -10db and 20db pad?

2"? That's close.

When you talk about power, decibels are used and they are non-linear. They are logarithmic. So half power is -3 dB, one tenth the power is -10 dB, and one one hundredth the power is -20 dB. One one thousandth is -30 dB and so on.

When we hear things, we do not hear volumes as in linear levels anyway so decibels work well to describe power levels for what we hear.

Attenuators cut the power level. They can be measured in negative dB numbers. Amplifiers will amplify signal levels and are measured in positive dB numbers. Long runs of cable can pick up noise, so if we push high levels of signal through long cable runs, the small amounts of noise will not be so noticeable, but if we run small signals through long runs, we will need to amplify on the other end and the noise will be a large portion of the signal seen by the amplifier and you will have garbagey sound. So it may be better to amplify first and attenuate on the other end in some cases.

I hope this helps.

Jerry

 

[Mike_J]

Jerry,
Yes mate-it does help. Thanks for that.
M.

 

[Sir_Matthew]

The NT1 I bought new in 2000 doesn't have a pad switch. I'm not sure which ones do & don't, but I've seen them in a variety of flavors.

 

[MessianicDreams]

Whilst I have no experience with this particular condenser, you should be able to put it right up by the grill with little problem.

As suggested, use a pad switch either on your pre or on the mic itself; you can also buy separate in-line attenuators which would go between the mic and the preamp.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

The NT1 I use is an early edition, I was a big fan of Rode mics from the start and one of my NT1's is a very early production.

My NT1 has a -10db pad switch that you access by removing the lower body of the mic, this comes off by undoing the knelled ring on the bottom of the mic. It may be that the latter NT1's and NT1A's don't have this feature, there is also a bass roll off switch.

The NT1 I bought new in 2000 doesn't have a pad switch. I'm not sure which ones do & don't, but I've seen them in a variety of flavors.

Those switches must be on either *very* early production models, or post-2000 models. I have a pair of NT1s I bought in '99, S/Ns A13090 and A13376. I just opened 13090 up for a look and there are no switches to be found.

G.

 

[witzendoz]

Those switches must be on either *very* early production models, or post-2000 models. I have a pair of NT1s I bought in '99, S/Ns A13090 and A13376. I just opened 13090 up for a look and there are no switches to be found.

G.

Yes very early, they were the first mics brought out by Rode. They are still going strong and sound great. The NT2 I have is also the first series NT2, this is also in regular use. If I get a chance I will take a photo of the switches, they were well hidden, I did not know about them tell months after I bought them.

Cheers

Alan.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Yes very early, they were the first mics brought out by Rode. They are still going strong and sound great. The NT2 I have is also the first series NT2, this is also in regular use. If I get a chance I will take a photo of the switches, they were well hidden, I did not know about them tell months after I bought them.

I'd also be interested in serial numbers. There's a lot of stories going around about changes to the NT1, but nobody seems to know just when in production the various changes happened. It'd be interesting to put at least some kind of rough limits on when this particular change happened based upon serial number. Also, as long as you have the guts and the camera pulled out, a pic or two of the capsule would be interesting too.
I can take similar pics of mine as a comparison, just for yucks.

I also just noticed you're from Rode's home country. I wonder if there were any differences as to what and when things were shipped locally vs. overseas.

G.

 

[witzendoz]

I'd also be interested in serial numbers. There's a lot of stories going around about changes to the NT1, but nobody seems to know just when in production the various changes happened. It'd be interesting to put at least some kind of rough limits on when this particular change happened based upon serial number. Also, as long as you have the guts and the camera pulled out, a pic or two of the capsule would be interesting too.
I can take similar pics of mine as a comparison, just for yucks.

I also just noticed you're from Rode's home country. I wonder if there were any differences as to what and when things were shipped locally vs. overseas.

G.

Hi Glen,

So I don't hijack this thread with the answers, I have started a new one: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=285271
Cheers

Alan.