Mike_J
New member
Alan,
No worries on the hijacking front. Post away. Its all one big learning curve for me.
Mike.
No worries on the hijacking front. Post away. Its all one big learning curve for me.
Mike.
R
Ricman
New member
After getting some fairly good results from just close-miking a Mesa Dual Rectifier/4x12, this weekend I experimented by added a couple distant mics. The music is loud overdriven guitar punk rock.
I had a modded SM57 about 5” off the grill cloth, angled slightly so that it aimed at about midway between the outer edge and the dustcap, on axis to the angle of the paper cone. About 5’ out in front and slightly higher than the top of the cab I placed two condensers, a SD Josephson C42 and an AT4033 (with –10pad and Lo cut switch engaged) both pointing down slightly toward the upper speakers in the cab. I chose to use two distant mics because I wanted to hear the differences of the two mics on the same performance take and see which I preferred. The C42 has a nice even response while the AT4033 is a bit hyped in the upper end. They each went through an RNP.
On the first couple songs I recorded three tracks, one for each mic. The results were quite good. The main body of the sound comes from the 57, the C42 provided a nice full sound with an even complement of Highs, Mid’s and Lows while the 4033 added a sharp edgy focused character without washing anything out. This actually surprised me little. It was a very usable tone, in fact the two of them together gave me just the additional character I was looking for. After the first couple songs I ended up combining the two distant mics onto one track (mainly to conserve HD space, but also to commit to a sound and have less option overload later). I think the mix of the two distant mics was something like 60/40 : C42/4033. So that gave me a close mic track and a distant mic track.
The end result is that the distant mics added a great element to the sound without sounding too roomy, they were close enough to not sound like a reverb and the amp was loud enough to give them a good jolt of relatively direct sound. (In fact it was very f*ckin loud!) At about 65” away from the cab, I see it as more of a close mic variation than a distant room mic as far as how it sounds and how I use it. It sits seamlessly with the close mic 57.
I think giving some room for the sound to develop helps. Even the SM57 sounds better to me backed off to 5–8” than it did when I had it jammed up on the grill.
On a related note:
I think one of the biggest detriments to getting a good guitar sound, for me, has been not taking the time to REALLY experiment and listen. The average guitar player is a major hindrance in this. They get bored with this stuff after 2 or 3 minutes and start aimlessly playing all sorts of random stuff, doodling around the neck, pretty much anything EXCEPT what you need them to play. This time around I went in and listened to the amp turned way the hell up without anything plugged in, and with a good deal of normal amp hum present and a willing assistant moving the mics around, I was able to hear some sweet spots, both speaker sweet spots and room sweet spots. Then I turned it back down a bit and re-amped a previously recorded DI guitar track so it would play exactly what I wanted it to play while I listened to the studio monitors and made some final adjustments. This made a huge difference from previous efforts.
Experiment and Good luck.
I had a modded SM57 about 5” off the grill cloth, angled slightly so that it aimed at about midway between the outer edge and the dustcap, on axis to the angle of the paper cone. About 5’ out in front and slightly higher than the top of the cab I placed two condensers, a SD Josephson C42 and an AT4033 (with –10pad and Lo cut switch engaged) both pointing down slightly toward the upper speakers in the cab. I chose to use two distant mics because I wanted to hear the differences of the two mics on the same performance take and see which I preferred. The C42 has a nice even response while the AT4033 is a bit hyped in the upper end. They each went through an RNP.
On the first couple songs I recorded three tracks, one for each mic. The results were quite good. The main body of the sound comes from the 57, the C42 provided a nice full sound with an even complement of Highs, Mid’s and Lows while the 4033 added a sharp edgy focused character without washing anything out. This actually surprised me little. It was a very usable tone, in fact the two of them together gave me just the additional character I was looking for. After the first couple songs I ended up combining the two distant mics onto one track (mainly to conserve HD space, but also to commit to a sound and have less option overload later). I think the mix of the two distant mics was something like 60/40 : C42/4033. So that gave me a close mic track and a distant mic track.
The end result is that the distant mics added a great element to the sound without sounding too roomy, they were close enough to not sound like a reverb and the amp was loud enough to give them a good jolt of relatively direct sound. (In fact it was very f*ckin loud!) At about 65” away from the cab, I see it as more of a close mic variation than a distant room mic as far as how it sounds and how I use it. It sits seamlessly with the close mic 57.
I think giving some room for the sound to develop helps. Even the SM57 sounds better to me backed off to 5–8” than it did when I had it jammed up on the grill.
On a related note:
I think one of the biggest detriments to getting a good guitar sound, for me, has been not taking the time to REALLY experiment and listen. The average guitar player is a major hindrance in this. They get bored with this stuff after 2 or 3 minutes and start aimlessly playing all sorts of random stuff, doodling around the neck, pretty much anything EXCEPT what you need them to play. This time around I went in and listened to the amp turned way the hell up without anything plugged in, and with a good deal of normal amp hum present and a willing assistant moving the mics around, I was able to hear some sweet spots, both speaker sweet spots and room sweet spots. Then I turned it back down a bit and re-amped a previously recorded DI guitar track so it would play exactly what I wanted it to play while I listened to the studio monitors and made some final adjustments. This made a huge difference from previous efforts.
Experiment and Good luck.
Mike_J
New member
In all honesty, I have to say I have been completely guilty of this. I don't how many forum threads I had to read emphasising mic placement testing before I stopped fucking about trying to repair a tonelessly recorded sound with eq. Resolved now though.
The close mic variation you described seem similar to the results I'm getting with my Shure and Rode because I'm not after any real room sound. The 2 mics are giving a good variation in tone that I'd never find in eq adjustments.
witzendoz
Senior Member
Hi,
Something else that I try that works well depending on the sound you want:
Use the NT1A close up, say 1 to 2 inches, then put a second condenser about the same distance (on a different speaker if you have more than 1) but have the second condenser in omni pattern. You need a condenser with an omni option of course. The omni mic need not be a large diaphragm condenser, a small will do. Blend the sound and check that the mics are in phase, reverse the phase of the omni if required.
Experiment with mic position and distance of both mics until you get the sound you want with a minimum of eq. You will find that the sound with the omni is very open, almost like a room mic.
Cheers
Alan.
Something else that I try that works well depending on the sound you want:
Use the NT1A close up, say 1 to 2 inches, then put a second condenser about the same distance (on a different speaker if you have more than 1) but have the second condenser in omni pattern. You need a condenser with an omni option of course. The omni mic need not be a large diaphragm condenser, a small will do. Blend the sound and check that the mics are in phase, reverse the phase of the omni if required.
Experiment with mic position and distance of both mics until you get the sound you want with a minimum of eq. You will find that the sound with the omni is very open, almost like a room mic.
Cheers
Alan.
