Computer Recording

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TomTrendy

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I'm trying to setup a budget for multi-track recording on the computer. The least I want is to be able to record four tracks at a time and I'd be completely satisfied with only four because I want to be able to record a drumset that way (two condensers for overheads, snare, kick) and then do the mixing on the computer. I've found a Yamaha USB mixer that can record up to six mics at a time but mixes down everything into two stereo tracks and sends them to the computer so it doesn't help. I can't find an interface that's got phantom power for the two condensers of four XLR inputs. Is there any interface that can do all of this at a price of $500 or under? If not, what pieces of the equipment can I buy (cheapest way possible) that will allow me to do all I want to do?

I really want to be able to hook four mics into an interface and the most I can find is two. Please help.

Thank you everyone.
 
A M-Audio 1010LT provides eight in, eight out, costs about $200, two M-Audio DMP-3 would set you back about $320. Six preamps (The two XLR inputs on the 1010LT will drive a Shure SM7B, which is really saying something), four of them with phantom power.

Luck.
 
"cheapest way possible"?

I'd go with the M Audio Delta 44- $150, (which is just a soundcard, no mic preamps) and a Yamaha MG 10/2 mixer- $100, which has four mic preamps and p. power. Obviously the preamps aren't great but for the price they are quite useable, I've used one of the MG consoles quite a bit for some live stuff. To get 4 seperate outs from the mixer you can use the track inserts and insert a trs cable until you hear the first click (ie. not all the way in).

That's four channels in/out and 4 mic pres with p. power, all reasonable quality, for $250.

You never know when you might need more ins though so if you could stretch to it the 1010LT wouldn't be a bad idea for an extra $50. It's the card I use and I really like it. The Yamaha MG12/4 ($200) would also give you 6 preamps, combined with the 2 already on the 1010LT that would give you 8 ins for a total of $400.

Nothing worse than having a few friends over and not being able to record everything live.
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
"cheapest way possible"?

I'd go with the M Audio Delta 44- $150, (which is just a soundcard, no mic preamps) and a Yamaha MG 10/2 mixer- $100, which has four mic preamps and p. power. Obviously the preamps aren't great but for the price they are quite useable, I've used one of the MG consoles quite a bit for some live stuff. To get 4 seperate outs from the mixer you can use the track inserts and insert a trs cable until you hear the first click (ie. not all the way in).

That's four channels in/out and 4 mic pres with p. power, all reasonable quality, for $250.
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Click to expand...

For the cheapest way i second that.
 
I third the Delta and a small mixer! The great thing about having the interface seperate from the pres is that when you get better/more interested/win the lottery, you can upgrade your pres with something better (and then eventually your interface) and still use the interface. If you buy an all-in-one solution, you're kind of tied down to that unit's pres.
 
Thanks a lot, guys. :) It seems like the best option is the M-Audio 1010 LT and a Yamaha MG 12/4 Mixer but with that, I've also got a few questions:

1) How bad are the preamps on the mixer? I know I can't get the best in my price budget but recording-wise, do they do a great job?

2) I always thought about mixing on my computer since it's what I'm used to as a beginner with the Audacity software and a computer mic but how much can I really do with that mixer? Can I pan and equalize individual tracks on the mixer after I've already recorded them into the computer or will I have to settle on recording on a recording software?

3) What's a good, basic recording software that does the job and has effects like reverb, etc. that I can produce a CD with?

4) How would you connect the mixer, 1010 LT, and the computer together? What cables do I need? I know I'll just need four XLRs because it's the most I really need to record at a time but other than that, how would I connect it all to send four individual tracks (the two condenser and two dynamic mics) into the 1010 LT, and from that to the computer to edit each track?

5) Finally, it seems like the 1010 LT is a piece of hardware with dangling wires that isn't encased. Can't that make it more fragile and easily damaged? What's the best way to protect something like that?

Again, thanks so much everyone. I know it's a lot of questions but I'm pretty much a one-man band and I'm trying to learn how to record all of my intruments as well as I can with my financial budget.
 
TomTrendy said:
1) How bad are the preamps on the mixer? I know I can't get the best in my price budget but recording-wise, do they do a great job?
Click to expand...
They're not bad at all. For a home studio they're perfectly adequate. I don't think you could do much better for the price. If there was nothing around that was any good for your budget then I'd have said so. They should do you fine.

TomTrendy said:
2) I always thought about mixing on my computer since it's what I'm used to as a beginner with the Audacity software and a computer mic but how much can I really do with that mixer? Can I pan and equalize individual tracks on the mixer after I've already recorded them into the computer or will I have to settle on recording on a recording software?
Click to expand...
In this instance the mixer is really only a front end for your interface- ie. you're just using it for the mic pres. That said you can still use it to route your outputs to different sources and for zero latency headphone monitoring etc. You can route everything back to an analog mixer for mixdown but it's a fair bit of hassle and not really worthwhile if you haven't got plenty of hardware effects and processors etc. that you want to utilise.

TomTrendy said:
3) What's a good, basic recording software that does the job and has effects like reverb, etc. that I can produce a CD with?
Click to expand...
Loads of options here, I really like Cubase SE which I think is around $100 over there. The joy of computer recording is that there are loads of cheap and even free vst effects and instruments available. In fact I don't really use any of the bundled stuff with cubase, I've found there's better stuff out there for free.

TomTrendy said:
4) How would you connect the mixer, 1010 LT, and the computer together? What cables do I need? I know I'll just need four XLRs because it's the most I really need to record at a time but other than that, how would I connect it all to send four individual tracks (the two condenser and two dynamic mics) into the 1010 LT, and from that to the computer to edit each track?
Click to expand...
At the mixer end you'll need 1/4" jacks, so that's 4 cables with 1/4" jacks at the end half clicked into the inserts of channels 1-4. 2 of those will need xlr male the other end going to ins 1&2 of the 1010LT (which are xlr female). The other 2 will need male RCA phono at the other end going into the other inputs on the card (which are RCA female).

TomTrendy said:
5) Finally, it seems like the 1010 LT is a piece of hardware with dangling wires that isn't encased. Can't that make it more fragile and easily damaged? What's the best way to protect something like that?
Click to expand...
Well mine hangs out of the back of the PC but once it's all hooked up to the mic pres it's all tucked away out of harms way anyway. Things should be set up so you don't have to keep ferreting around the back of the PC reconnecting things.

Hope this helps and good luck with it.
 
Thank you so much. I've been trying to figure out the cheapest yet best way to record with a decent degree of quality and you've pretty much answered all my questions.

Just out of curiosity though, why is it that you have to connect the 1/4" jacks into the mixer only untill the first click? What happens if they're in all the way?

By the way, I record on a laptop that's pretty much got it's full capacity of 30GB filled up. Have any suggestions on a specific brand or model of an external hardrive that's got a great amount of space for a great price?
 
TomTrendy said:
Just out of curiosity though, why is it that you have to connect the 1/4" jacks into the mixer only untill the first click? What happens if they're in all the way?
Click to expand...
You'd just get no signal out of the mixer. The track inserts intended purpose is to add an external source to the track, eg. if you wanted to compress the signal on the way to the recorder you could 'insert' a compressor at this point. It's just a feature of the design of most mixers inserts that if you insert a jack plug until the first click it outputs the signal from that channel. Very handy as decent mixers with direct outs on all tracks tend to be pricey.

TomTrendy said:
By the way, I record on a laptop
Click to expand...
:eek:

This is bad news as all of the interfaces suggested are PCI interfaces intended for use in a desktop PC. Of course you can buy PCI expansion systems for laptops but I believe they're very expensive. Might be worth looking into though as I don't know much about laptops.

If you're using a laptop then you'll have to look at USB or firewire (apparently better if your notebook supports it) interfaces. Not an area I know much about unfortunately because I'm a desktop person. I suspect 4 simultaneous ins would be expensive though. :(
 
Oh man, that's a bummer. So there's no way of hooking up the Delta 1010LT into my Gateway laptop unless I bought avery expensive PCI expansion system? I know nothing about Firewire and Firewire interfaces other than they're faster than a USB interface and I don't know what extras I'd have to purchase to use a Firewire interface.

So does anybody know of any cheap but decent method to record four tracks at once into a laptop and go back and edit each of those individual tracks?
 
"I've used one of the MG consoles quite a bit for some live stuff. To get 4 seperate outs from the mixer you can use the track inserts and insert a trs cable until you hear the first click (ie. not all the way in)."


sorry to jump in on this, but can you explain this a little better? what exactly is a trs cable? my cheap mixer looks a lot like the yamaha MG10 (behringer ub1202 - picture is here: http://www.casalibertella.com.ar/behringer_ub1202_gde.jpg)

can i do the same thing with mine? i'm kind of in the same boat as this dude, and i just got the mixer so maybe i should take it back and get an MG?
 
oh and regarding firewire - firewire allows you to record all your inputs separately. there's a thing called a firepod which is basically 8 XPR inputs + preamps, and then the other side connects to your laptop via firewire. so you can record your 8 inputs separately through the laptop, no PCI expansion needed. it looks really simple.

firewire is cheap to install in a laptop if you don't have it already. the firepod is just a bit out of your price-range, though, at about $700-$800. i'm saving up for one right now, unless i can find something better.
 
oh, and lastly, firewire allows you to bypass your soundcard entirely, so you aren't relying on it anymore, and don't have to worry about spending money to get a half-decent one. this is always pretty good for laptops.
 
dave123454321 said:
" what exactly is a trs cable?
Click to expand...

TRS stands for Tip-Ring-Sleeve. It's a 3-conductor connector (like a stereo headphone plug), which, in an Insert jack, breaks out the signal into send and return. An insert cable will have the TRS connector on one end and will split into 2 cables, each with a TS (tip-sleeve) connector. One will carry the signal to the external processor (like a compressor) and the other will carry the signal return from the external processor, thus "inserting" the external processor into the circuit.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
 
Good explanation there, they're both 1/4" jack plugs so at a glance they look the same but trs have two black stripes on them (like in the pic below) and ts have just one (because there's no 'ring').

It doesn't look like that mixer has inserts, unless there are some more sockets on the back?

I've not used the 'Big ringer' mixers myself but they don't have a great rep anyway. I can vouch for the yammie though and it has inserts so if you can take the behri back I'd do so and swap it for the Yammie MG.
 

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Wow there is a lot going on in this thread, just thought I would confuse it a little more in an attempt to unconfuse me. I am getting ready to buy a mac G5 and was planning on getting one of those new alesis mixers that have a firewire out with it. Will this allow me to record the 4 seperate tracks at the same time on garage band and allow me to mess with each track seperately? Sorry for hijacking the post and asking a different question, but any help is greatly appreciated!
 
jstancil said:
Wow there is a lot going on in this thread, just thought I would confuse it a little more in an attempt to unconfuse me. I am getting ready to buy a mac G5 and was planning on getting one of those new alesis mixers that have a firewire out with it. Will this allow me to record the 4 seperate tracks at the same time on garage band and allow me to mess with each track seperately? Sorry for hijacking the post and asking a different question, but any help is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

If its firewire then yes you can record 4 seperate tracks at the same time. If its USB im pretty sure you wouldnt.
 
So it seems my only option for now is to get a Presonus Inspire so I can work with two tracks and then get another one in the future and "daisy-chain" it with this one. Problem is, my laptop doesn't have a firewire port. How can I equip it with the firewire system?
 
If you can swing an extra $100 (over and above the firewire interface cost), you might consider the Presonus Firepod, which will give you eight simultaneous channels, all with mic preamps. It's $600 nearly everywhere and I recently got one with a free headphone amp bundled with it.

BTW: You can daisy-chain three Firepods, giving 24 channels, with software that will recognize that many inputs.
 
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