Compressors during recording

[DAS19]

DONT COMPRESS ON TEH WAY IN!

Especially if you dont know what your doing. You can always compress afterwards whats the point in messing with a track when it could sound better in the mix on another setting.

Recording hot on tape well give you a compressed effect and it wont spoil your track.

 

[mixsit]

So, I'm picking up an old Roland MMP-2 preamp this weekend. One of the gadgets built in is a compressor. Since my son and I are total newbies to all this part of the reason for getting this toy is to learn about all this stuff.

I have a bit of a hard time rationalizing why a compressor, especially without a matching de-compression algorithm on the back side would be good. The best explaination I could come up with in my own little mind was this. Rule of thumb (idiots guide to recording) is you turn the gain up on your preamp just to the point that it is peaking on the loudest passages. Right? I guess there are several reasons for doing this but one of them would be so that it lets you pick up the softest passages in the music. I think this is called dynamic range? Now if you have a few really loud sections you might be faced with losing some of the softer parts or pegging the meter on the load passages. However, with a compressor you can still have the low level signals but prevent distortion of the peaks. Am I totally out in left field?

Yes, and there are perfectly valid reasons for compression at recording that include helping 'fix or compensate for input level problems. But not as a solution ahead of learning good gain setup, record level and performance and mic techniques. That is to get the cart ahead of the horse so to speak.
As a rule compression can be aimed at 'level correction/safety' or 'enhancement', but doesn't fair so well doing both at the same time. Even 'level correction' alone typically falls into two completely opposite ends of 'setup type, and is almost always a poor second best to getting better control up front.

So generally, and particularly if you're just getting the hang of things you'll have a better shot at getting good tracks by keeping the basics up front ('do the least harm'.
Otherwise, as a fairly safe venture- try a bit of reduction (2-4db) at low ratio (2:1), moderate attack (> 10ms) and fast'ish release (50-100), or similar in a low ratio 'auto mode.

 

[mixsit]

George Massenburg usually doesn't

As I 'read him, his 'Do no harm' ethic is a strong one - right down to being even highly cautious of the 'color preamps.

 

[xstatic]

In very interview I have ever read ( moslt in mix mag.) all of thje top engineers compress on the way in, sometimes using 2 compressors together. They have all the good gear and in many cases big budgets.

I compress fairly frequently at the tracking phase, but I also have some pretty cool vintage comps. The point I was trying to make earlier thought is that the people you are reading about are quite likely not compressing at all for limiting or peak control (worries about clipping) but purely for the sonic signature of the compressor used and the settings involved. Chaining two comps in series is certainly not rare, it is just using mulitple tools

 

[nickwarhead]

What are you supposed to do if your mixdown stays in the digital realm, as in rendering your mix rather then manually mixing out of the computer into another medium? I'm going from a recording mixer into an 8 in soundcard, where my only chance to compress is during recording. I don't care for the compressor plugins as they don't seem to really do anything.

 

[jmorris]

What are you supposed to do if your mixdown stays in the digital realm, as in rendering your mix rather then manually mixing out of the computer into another medium? I'm going from a recording mixer into an 8 in soundcard, where my only chance to compress is during recording. I don't care for the compressor plugins as they don't seem to really do anything.

you're not using a good one then. Try UAD la-2a or 1176.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I don't care for the compressor plugins as they don't seem to really do anything.

If this is your belief then the chances of you not miserably ruining the signal with a hardware compressor are pretty low

 

[Todzilla]

If you really know what you're doing, you can compress on the way in, and you'll ultimately get a stronger signal that way.

But, as others have noted, you can't effectively undo compression, so if you don't know what you're doing, you're far better off recording straight and compressing after the fact.

 

[RAMI]

If you really know what you're doing, you can compress on the way in, and you'll ultimately get a stronger signal that way.

I still don't understand why you'd compress for that reason. If you want a stronger signal, turn up the input of your recorder or the output of your instrument. A compressor will compress (strangely enough), which means it somehow changes the sound, however subtly. So, if you want the change in sound that the compressor gives you, then THAT should be the reason you compress. But simply for a louder signal, I don't see the need for a compressor.

 

[hoops]

purely for the sonic signature of the compressor used and the settings involved.

I like compressing on the way in. I like what it does sonicly to my guitar and to the snare drum.

 

[jmorris]

Compressors came into play for the purpose of evening sound/levels. Limiting peaks to get a more even signal, louder signal without or with a lesser chance of clips/pegging the meter. Over the years people noticed that compressors by different manufactures had a bit of a different sound,color the sound as they say. I compress on the way in everyday. Mostly lead vocals and kick,snare and at times bass. This does not mean slam the shit out of the source,maybe a nice 2:1 on vocals, a bit more on an active bass part.

 

[TerraMortim]

You can do that after, too. I can't understand why some people just don't WANT to believe that they don't HAVE to compress, EQ, gate, or whatever else they read about, on the way in. I'm not addressing that to you, hubb. I'm just talking generally...No matter what you tell some people, they'll still say "Yeah, but I read somewhere that compressing on the way in will help (fill in the blank here)."

The cleaner your chain, the cleaner the recording.

agreed. There's nothing that you can't come back to later and process... the more room you have for fuckery, the less frustrations in the long run.

 

[jmorris]

I just dont understand this idea of not being able to commit to something. Maybe because I grew up in the old days before computers and change everything whenever you like kind of world. For me, I have no problem compression on the way in. I really think its a kind of a skill to be able to perform it correctly, saves me time later. Yes, I do add maybe a little bit later,or limiter on vocals ( UAD La-2a) . Years ago with limited gear, I felt I had to do it all on the way in.Did not have enough gear to patch till my hearts content after, 3 or 4 compressors that was it. I think it is a nice skill to learn to process on the way in. I know for me I pay very close attention at that stage to what Im hearing...I mean very close. Far from slap up a mic and fix it later. I get it as good as I can going in.If I have to tweak after so be it.

 

[hoops]

This does not mean slam the shit out of the source,maybe a nice 2:1 on vocals, a bit more on an active bass part.

Exactly.
It sounds different when you do it going to track then adding it after as well.

 

[pezking]

Can I just point out that the act of compressing makes the signal QUIETER not louder! Sorry for being pedantic, but it's something that needs to be understood!

 

[mixsit]

Can I just point out that the act of compressing makes the signal QUIETER not louder! Sorry for being pedantic, but it's something that needs to be understood!

Of it's initial effect, sure. But then that would be to leave it out it's full context if you will. Ultimately it's so something does not have to be turned down, or can be turned up...

+/- the other job of simply changing shape/tone or density along the way.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

As long as the pedantic precident has already been set for this thread ...

"Compression" is nothing more than a reduction of dynamic range. Compression can make things either quieter or louder, depending upon whether one is talking downward compression (gain reduction above the threshold), upward compression (gain increase below the threshold) or parallel compression (layering compression on top of a dry track). And even then, that assumes one is only talking about the gain expansion/reduction control and ignoring the output gain control, which puts all bets off on the resulting apparent volume.

G.

 

[TerraMortim]

If you really know what you're doing, you can compress on the way in, and you'll ultimately get a stronger signal that way.

But, as others have noted, you can't effectively undo compression, so if you don't know what you're doing, you're far better off recording straight and compressing after the fact.

There's no good reason why you'd have to compress on the way in. You could, but there's no reason why you should. If it works for you, then do it... Maybe more in analog where you don't want to bounce it around so much to get a lower noisefloor?

 

[TerraMortim]

I just dont understand this idea of not being able to commit to something. Maybe because I grew up in the old days before computers and change everything whenever you like kind of world. For me, I have no problem compression on the way in. I really think its a kind of a skill to be able to perform it correctly, saves me time later. Yes, I do add maybe a little bit later,or limiter on vocals ( UAD La-2a) . Years ago with limited gear, I felt I had to do it all on the way in.Did not have enough gear to patch till my hearts content after, 3 or 4 compressors that was it. I think it is a nice skill to learn to process on the way in. I know for me I pay very close attention at that stage to what Im hearing...I mean very close. Far from slap up a mic and fix it later. I get it as good as I can going in.If I have to tweak after so be it.

For me, it depends on the writing process... I tend to write things as I record, and experiment a lot, so the sound I end up with can be VERY different from what it was when I laid it down in the first place... I tend to even leave my guitar sounds open to be changed at any time... If I were to commit to a sound that early in the game, I could in effect either hit a brick wall when a piece of inspiration hits me, or would have to turn around and record the part over again (and possibly not getting the perfect take as a result) I know that there is a growing amount of people who prefer to write this way, and I think this might be part of the reason why you find less people willing to commit to an exact sound right out of the gate. But I mean, hell, there's nothing wrong with that...even re-amping isn't a brand new concept, but it has the same idea in mind.

 

[TerraMortim]

As long as the pedantic precident has already been set for this thread ...

"Compression" is nothing more than a reduction of dynamic range. Compression can make things either quieter or louder, depending upon whether one is talking downward compression (gain reduction above the threshold), upward compression (gain increase below the threshold) or parallel compression (layering compression on top of a dry track). And even then, that assumes one is only talking about the gain expansion/reduction control and ignoring the output gain control, which puts all bets off on the resulting apparent volume.

G.

however different electronics will colour the sound differently... or even different plugin algorithms... that's more of the issue...do you want to commit 100% to that particular compressor, when you might want to use a different one for effect down the line instead? Compression in itself doesn't make anything louder, only by turning up the output gain of the compressor can you raise the level of a signal with a compressor...which is really just a perceived loudness... a limiter has more ability to make a sound louder than a compressor.