Compressor

[Ivorykeys]

Hi,
I think I understand the role of a compressor in recording work, but in a live sound application, can the effect of a compressor actually be heard to the audience, or does it's effect only get transferred to the recording medium?

Also, I want to hook-up both a compressor AND a graphic EQ to a single channel with a mic for voice. I assume I would do this with the channel insert, which is on my Mackie Onyx 1202. In the signal chain, should I hook-up the compressor first, & then the EQ, or the other way around? My voice is rather thin (trebley), and I want to increase the mid-base a bit, so I'm thinking that maybe I'd want to hook-up the compressor first to first limit the low/high peaks of the whole range, and then boost the low/mids a little. Please tell me if this is the correct train of thought. I'm using a KMS-105 mic directly into the ONYX preamp.

Lastly, my EQ has 2 balanced inputs & 2 balanced outputs (Klark Teknik DN360), but, with the exception of the Klark manual (which is very brief, albeit, tough for me to understand) all books that I've read suggest that only a single (i.e., left) channel on an EQ is required for hook-up, and not a dual (i.e., stereo-left/right) is required. And some tutorials say to use special "insert-Y-cables", that have a TRS jack that branches into 2 mono jacks. Klark calls for all balanced (XLR) cables, so I'm thoroughly confused about this mono/stereo & balanced/unbalanced thing.

I would appreciate any thoughts about how this thing is supposed to be hooked-up in conjunction with the compressor on the same channel.

Thanks,
Ivorykeys

 

[wheelema]

I haven't worked enough with compression to have a real good handle on it, perhaps I just haven't had a need. But it seems to me that sound is sound, so if you are going to hear in a recording, you will hear it live.

 

[ssscientist]

Assuming the EQ on your Onyx board is pre-insert, that should be all you need to make the modifications you seek to the tone of your voice. You will be able to save the Klark-Technik for where it will do the most good.

As far as a compressor goes, I use and recommend the FMR Really Nice Compressor. It has a $1000 sound in a $175 box, and the 'Super Nice' mode can't be beat for taming peaks and, depending on where you set the threshold, boosting valleys.

Here's a link to a dealer --- LINK.


.

 

[RAK]

Hi,
I think I understand the role of a compressor in recording work, but in a live sound application, can the effect of a compressor actually be heard to the audience, or does it's effect only get transferred to the recording medium?

Also, I want to hook-up both a compressor AND a graphic EQ to a single channel with a mic for voice. I assume I would do this with the channel insert, which is on my Mackie Onyx 1202. In the signal chain, should I hook-up the compressor first, & then the EQ, or the other way around? My voice is rather thin (trebley), and I want to increase the mid-base a bit, so I'm thinking that maybe I'd want to hook-up the compressor first to first limit the low/high peaks of the whole range, and then boost the low/mids a little. Please tell me if this is the correct train of thought. I'm using a KMS-105 mic directly into the ONYX preamp.

Lastly, my EQ has 2 balanced inputs & 2 balanced outputs (Klark Teknik DN360), but, with the exception of the Klark manual (which is very brief, albeit, tough for me to understand) all books that I've read suggest that only a single (i.e., left) channel on an EQ is required for hook-up, and not a dual (i.e., stereo-left/right) is required. And some tutorials say to use special "insert-Y-cables", that have a TRS jack that branches into 2 mono jacks. Klark calls for all balanced (XLR) cables, so I'm thoroughly confused about this mono/stereo & balanced/unbalanced thing.

I would appreciate any thoughts about how this thing is supposed to be hooked-up in conjunction with the compressor on the same channel.

Thanks,
Ivorykeys

Compressors can definetly come in handy in a live setting. Remember, while sometimes compressors are used because they have a "sound" in the studio, often times the goal is for the compressor to be transparent, and just help with volume control. For example, they're great if you have 8 actors on lavs on stage, to help with feedback.

As for your other question. If you have a mono source (i.e. the single voice mic), then you only need to run the compressor/Eq in mono. Basically you have a stereo or "2-channel" EQ, but you only need one channel.
I would run the EQ first, then the Compressor, so you're compressing the EQ'd signal, but it might not matter all that much.

Does your Mackie Onyx have XLR Inserts? (probably not). If your EQ only has XLR I/O then you need something like a TRS to dual Male XLR. You'd plug the TRS into the Insert channel on the Onyx, then plug one of the XLRs into an output and the corresponding input on the EQ. That's the insert route.

As for hooking it all up, you can do something like this.
TRS end of Y cable into Mackie Onyx.
1 end of Y cable into EQ In.
connect EQ OUT to Compressor IN
other end of Y cable to Compressor Out.

It's hard to explain without having everything in front of you, but that should work.

 

[XLR]

...in a live sound application, can the effect of a compressor actually be heard to the audience, ...?

. Yes. Learn about compression here.

should I hook-up the compressor first, & then the EQ, or the other way around?

You should try it both ways and decide which sounds better to you. I usually put EQ before compression.

Tim

 

[Ivorykeys]

Thanks for your input, guys.

Tim,
Thanks for the compressor link, I'll be reading up on the nitty-grittys.

ssscientist,
The ONYX has a 3-band, albeit limited, EQ. It certainly helps when I increase the low-band during vocals, but the Klark has 31-band control, which I'm guessing, would REALLY be effective in tone improvement (maybe not improvement persay, but tweaking to more complete satisfaction). That's what I'm thinking in theory anyway.

I'm glad that you mentioned the RNC. I've been looking at the opinions here, and that seems like a logical choice for a first unit. On that same token, have you experimented with it's brother, the RNLA? From the sound of it, although no one has actually said it, it's description gives a non-digital, almost 'tube-like', flavor. I'm thinking about going with a Funklogic Rack mount with either the RNC next to the RNLA, or just 2 RNC's. I saw both of those combinations on ebay yesterday (although I'd probably buy new, since the cost differential between new/used is not that great.)

RAK,
Thanks for clarifying the live-sound reinforcement issue. Yes, it's a mono signal (voice), so it just makes sense that I would only need half of the unit's stereo capability. I'm just thinking, from a singing perspective at a live gig, do performers actually use a compressor to control wild peaks for an audible improvement to the audience (I knew it improved the recording, but I did not know if it was used for live performances for sound-reinforcement) if the vocalist's mic technique was less-than-perfect. I'm just beginning to sing (I play acoustic piano & keyboards/sequenced tracks) at my gigs, and was wondering if it's commonplace in the industry & would I possibly benefit from the use of one (in combination with the chained Klark EQ) in addition to my reverb unit all in one travel rack. Based on your input, I'll need to pick up some TRS to dual Male XLR's to hook things up, thanks for the hook-up direction.

Ivorykeys

 

[ssscientist]

The ONYX has a 3-band, albeit limited, EQ. It certainly helps when I increase the low-band during vocals, but the Klark has 31-band control, which I'm guessing, would REALLY be effective in tone improvement (maybe not improvement persay, but tweaking to more complete satisfaction). That's what I'm thinking in theory anyway.

This is a common mistake - that something is better just because it's more complicated and costs more.

The Onyx EQ will do more to thicken your voice than futzing around with a 31-band EQ, will be easier to eyeball should it get knocked out of whack and will deliver a nice, even wide-curve boost just where you want a nice even wide curve boost. The last thing you want is for your vocals to sound over-EQ'd, and thats almost a certainty if you insist on using the 31 band just because it was expensive.

You've got an excellent microphone and an very good mixer to work with. If you buy the RNC and get used to using it you will probably find that you won't need anymore than the mic, the board and a single channel of compression to compensate for any thinness in your voice.

.

 

[ssscientist]

have you experimented with it's brother, the RNLA?

No.

RNLA stands for Really Nice Leveling Amplifier and I have a hardware limiter that I am particularly fond of, the Aphex Dominator.

Leveling/limiting is simply high-ratio (20:1 or more) compression.

.

 

[Ivorykeys]

ssscientist,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try both scenerios with the EQing & let you know what the outcome is. I'm inclined to think that the Klark EQ may be better served as a total EQ for the entire mix, rather than the single channel (voice) one. I'll also check out the Aphex Dominator while I'm at it. While it is over my budget at ~$1200 new, it appears it could be had for much less on ebay.

Ivorykeys

 

[RAK]

I'm just thinking, from a singing perspective at a live gig, do performers actually use a compressor to control wild peaks for an audible improvement to the audience (I knew it improved the recording, but I did not know if it was used for live performances for sound-reinforcement) if the vocalist's mic technique was less-than-perfect. I'm just beginning to sing (I play acoustic piano & keyboards/sequenced tracks) at my gigs, and was wondering if it's commonplace in the industry & would I possibly benefit from the use of one (in combination with the chained Klark EQ) in addition to my reverb unit all in one travel rack.

I would say it is certainly commonplace to use a compressor to help control peaking in a live setting. I've certainly used it. Since I'm assuming you want things to sound as "natural" as possible, the trick is to use as little compressions/Eq as possible, while still achieving what you're going for. Sure you can pull 15 dB iout of an offending frequency, and definetly get no feedback, but that may wildly affect the sound in a negative way. Similarly, you don't want to "hear" the compressor triggering. Just use enough to help with peaks, but you may find you don't need it at all. Do a lot of A/B'ing, and remember there's always a bypass button.