Compression for radio play. Why?

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Chibi Nappa

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I don't know if this is the right forum for this but....

Why do songs get compressed for radio play? Are there broadcasting laws that somehow dictate that? Can FM not broadcast a large enough dynamic range? Do they just want to be "louder"? Is the signal easier to recieve once it gets to your radio?

I just had to ask because I have been wondering for years. That and it really annoys me.
 
Radio and TV compress the hell out of everything.The famous example is you watching a late nite tv show with the volume turned down low and the commercials seems to jump out at you because they are so heavily compressed!
The boys who pay the advertising dollars want to make sure you hear every word of those ads.Can't blame them for that.But I do have a gripe about the way musical timbre is sacrificed for just more level.Unfortunately business trumps artistic in this case.

Tom
 
So the answer really is to just make it louder? I can understand this for an add. Sure, the add guys want to shout at you. But this makes no sense at all for just playing a song over the radio, especially when the song has already been compressed in the studio durring the mastering process! Do the radio stations not realize that the music has already been optimized for punch (silly question, I know they must realize that)? It's loud enough to begin with! I honestly can't think of what they gain by compressing further. If they want you to listen, play it the way it was intended to be played! I can't even listen to music on the radio it is so bad.

Wouldn't they get more listeners with better sound quality? Wouldn't they get more add dollars with more listeners? Isn't they best sound quality what came out of the mastering house? Am I missing something obvious since this bothers the heck out of me but EVERY station feels that they have to do it?
 
A little off topic, but...

I have a similar problem with some of the newer radios/stereos that have these preprogrammed reverb settings - i.e., concert hall, jazz, rock, etc.

The musicians/engineers put reverb on the song of the type and level that they want it to be heard at, and then some bozo plays it back and adds additional reverb.

I have friends who have this in their cars, and I can't even stand to listen to the music that way. If the artists wanted extra reverb, they would have produced it that way.
 
dachay2tnr said:
A little off topic, but...

I have a similar problem with some of the newer radios/stereos that have these preprogrammed reverb settings - i.e., concert hall, jazz, rock, etc.

The musicians/engineers put reverb on the song of the type and level that they want it to be heard at, and then some bozo plays it back and adds additional reverb.

I have friends who have this in their cars, and I can't even stand to listen to the music that way. If the artists wanted extra reverb, they would have produced it that way.
Click to expand...

Amen to all of that! Most people who buy sterios with stuff like that don't even know what it is or how to use it. I'll go over to a friend's house to watch a movie and it will be echoing like crazy. I'll ask him to turn off the "3D surround theater sound" or whatever it's called on that unit, and he'll just give me this "huh?" look. So I walk up to the thing and turn it off and he'll say something like "oh, that echo is gone. How did you do that?".

Just let the people who know what they are doing at the pro studio handle that sort of thing! Anyway, I still want to know why radio songs are compressed.
 
Ok the reason radio stations use compression is to be able to say to advertising companies that they have there own unique sound. Yes, just like a band has a certain sound, radio stations have there own sound based on there compression sound and quality. The radio station will tell an advertising company that if you use our station (with our funky groove high mental stimuli compression ) you will have an advantage over the other stations. You and I now this is total crap but advertising people are easily led. I mean they think we all watch ads.
 
Chibi,

Its all about ratings = money.

You have to remember who your listeners are. (demographics)

CHR stations (top-40) are notorious for heavy compression. The target audience of most CHR stations is 18-34 year old women. CHRs get teenagers simply by default. This demographic is not concerned by accuracy in music when they listen from their boom box or car stereo. To a jazz or classical listener accuracy is very important and thats why you find completely different processing for those types of formats. Also you must remember if you compress and make things louder it becomes a bit more clear to those listeners a hundred miles away who can barely tune in your radio station.

Before remixes and sampling was available radio stations would go to great lengths to make sure their hit music was louder and more "exciting" than the competitions. This meant re-EQing with more bass and more highs. In many circumstances it also meant speeding up the song to give it more energy than the competitons. (that used to be part of my job) Of course all this gets out of hand when the competition does the same thing.


If you really want an example of a totaly compressed and squashed to death sound try to obtain the Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 CDs sent to radio stations for re-broadcast. That is where I learned a lot about compression!

It really is all about having the most exciting, entertaining, and LOUD radio station.
 
Radio Compression

The real reason is uniformaty. radio stations use more limiting than compression.

Because there are so many releases and the levels are so different, stations use this to try to keep the levels as close to the same as possible so every time they play a different song, you don't have to adjust your volmue.
 
Thanks guys! Now my poor tortured mind can rest. I can see doing it to control levels and keep all songs playing at the same volume. You don't want your listeners to have to get up and turn the volume knob every 3 minutes. Also I can see doing it to make things louder so it becomes more clear to listeners a hundred miles away who can barely tune in the radio station. Those sound like reasonable things to do. I still don't agree with the concept of getting a unique "sound" for a radio station through compression and loudness, but if that is what gets the dollars in....

Oh well, back to my CD's and blissfully ignoring the radio!
 
Compression

Compression has nothing to do with the distance the station is from the listener. You can have it as loud as you want but if you are outside the transmitting range of the station>>>>. Tough luck
 
Ignore me if this isn't what you're asking about, but...
I'm pretty sure there's a legal issue as well. Someone more knowledgeable should please chime in here, but I believe that in the US, the Federal Communications Commission does regulate the maximum signal a licensed radio station may transmit. If I'm not mistaken, the stations are subject to fines for exceeding that limit. In an effort to avoid overs, the stations strap broadcast limiters accross their output with the result that much rock or what should be loud music gets smushed, if you'll pardon my limited vocabulary.

I realize this does not account for the ridiculous compression you're complaining about. And I agree it's taken to extremes on the advertisements.
 
Re: Compression

Bob Moore said:
Compression has nothing to do with the distance the station is from the listener. You can have it as loud as you want but if you are outside the transmitting range of the station>>>>. Tough luck
Click to expand...

Actuay Mr Moore it does have something to do with compression. I dont know what markets you have worked in but I will assure you that in major markets radio stations do every possible thing they can to make their signal clear and strong within the limits set forth by the FCC. If you have 2 signals, one compressed and one non-comopressed and a listener at a long distance away (assuming all other factors equal such as transmitting power, frequency, etc) both signals may be just as "staticy" however the compressed signal will still sound louder than the non-compressed signal...when it is received. Yes compression won't make a signal go further or become more clear, however it will, even if it is a hundred miles away be more loud than the non-compressed signal. That can possibly translate into higher shares and high cumulateive ratings for the station.

Any broadcast engineer worth his salt can make a small powered station sound just as loud as a 100,000 watt FM if he is given a good budget. No the signal wont travel near as far, but it can sound clear and loud for whatever market the FCC has liscenced the station for.

I could give you numerous examples where a 5,000 watt AM sounded louder than any of the 50,000 clear channel stations due to the processing of the radio signal and the processing of the actual music itself.
 
I am not an old timer, I am 15. almost 16. But i must say, I really do miss those good ol recordings that have that beautiful sound to them, even the old cd's of rachmoninoff playing his own music. No compression, just great....or shall i say great timbre? (timbre is the instruments dictated sound because of overtones, right?)
 
Compression

Mr. Bud:

Well let's see.... First of all if you are using compression to make things louder then you are not using it properly. Just think of the word """COMPRESSION""", If you compress something you make it smaller.

The intent of compression is to reduce the dynamic range of the signal being processed. A compression ratio of 2:.0:1 indicates that for every 2db input you get a 1 db output. What this effectivly does is bring the higher and lower levels closer together. the only way to make this signal "louder", and I use this term loosely, is to increase the output level of the compressor. this in turn increases the level of the whole signal, noise and all.

I don't think any station wants to increase the noise level of their signal.

I don't know how many radio stations you've listened to that have become out of range but as soon as the ststion becomes unclear, I change stations.

If you use a compressor to increase the level of the signal you increase the noise as well weather you are in range of the transmitter or not.

Why would you listen to a noisy station.

If I had an engineer doing that to my signal he wouldn't be with me for long.
 
Bob

Thanks for your lesson on compression. That was very nice. By your explanation does that mean in studio recording the engineer never turns up the gain? After all, the noise increases as well doesn't it? There must be a lot of noisy recordings out there!

Since you don’t believe me, (and I’m not a broadcast engineer but I have worked in several major markets), just confirm what I wrote with any broadcast engineer who has worked in CHR Radio in a major market. Try WHTZ or WKTU New York or KPWR or KIIS Los Angles. I have been in endless meetings with program directors and general managers stating exactly HOW they want their signal to sound. I’m speaking about CHR, AC, some types of Rock format radio, and most country formats. Or how about contacting a Clear Channel “support” engineer? Those guys get paid big bucks to "push the envelope" and are always offering unsolicited advice on exactly what you claim to not be true.

Regarding your noise issue, have you ever thought that the compressor might not be the first or last audio processor in the chain? I assure you that a standard broadcast $5,000 Optimod is not the only piece of equipment in the rack on a major market property that just sold for $22,000,000.

Yes of course 90% or maybe even 99% of people change stations when they become unclear. But what about that 10% or even 1% that don’t do what you assume? If I’m paying out $15,000 a month just for in-house ratings research ( i.e nothing to do with Arbitron) I’ll gladly analyze and consider those listeners that may listen to my radio station from other markets. That could make the difference between being number 1 and number 2!

Do you understand the intense level of competition in larger markets and how even a tenth of one percent of an Arbitron share will translate into thousands of dollars of revenue? Any broadcast consultant can explain how radio programming is based on Arbitron and their methods of gathering data for ratings. Part of that is making your signal clear and loud for the above mentioned formats. There are hundreds of markets where signals stray into competing listening areas. Its very common for a station licensed to a small market but located just outside a large market, to do everything possible to their signal to get ratings. Spending just a few thousand on processing to make your signal loud and clear is a drop in the bucket.
 
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