compression confusion

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samich17

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compress this...limit that...cook and egg, but don't it without salt and pepper...

one major question..i am using Sound Forge 5.0 Compressor...i can't get the swing of this thing...i put in what would seem to be the correct data and it doesn't come out right.. EXAMPLE..


i have a vocal track that averages -9dB (some spots at -6dB)

i want to bring everything up to -6dB......so i set the threshold to
-6dB and put a +3 on the output level....i use a 5:1 ratio typically with fast attack and release...and the mix jumps out of control...wouldn't these figures make sense? what am i doing wrong? PLEASE HELP...hehe
 
What is it you are trying to accomplish? IOW, why are you compressing? Tame peaks? Raise overall track volume level? Even out track?

Also, remember the threshold is the point where the compressor starts working. With it set at -6 db, nothing is happening until your track reaches -6db. Is this what you want?
 
Leave the output level alone for starters, if your losing too much signal during compression then your compessing too much. Start with small changes 2:1 and 3:1 are extreme changes depending on the input material. Try slow release times of 1 to 2 seconds and set it for soft knee...

Start small!

Peace,
Dennis
 
You're not the only one having trouble with that over hyped compression... who needs it? If u make the original mix right, equalize and use a loudness maximizer who cares for compression.. :D


Club Zero
 
club zero - i tend to agree with you, the only thing that i've found compression good for was to average out the volume levels for acoustic guitar and vocals...because i'm not very good at maintaining an even level while recording...if anybody can contribute to some other benefits of compression, let me know, because it is really vague to me at this point
 
I see where you're coming from. As for me it's different since I can program carefully the volume of each note and even the space between notes how I wish as I make electronic music.. ;)

Club Zero
 
that's fine for electronic music but he was talking about vocals which has different rules.

if you are compressing pop music (which really is everything but jazz) vocals, you want to ease up on the compression ratio, 5:1 is something you would use on bass, but not vocals. lower the threshold, and lighten up on the ratio.

i'd go with a ratio between 1.5:1 and 3:1, with a fast attack and a release that is tempo defined wherein slow songs would have a longer release time since the vocals on slow songs need more room to swell and die. then set the threshold low enough to get the amount of dynamics reduction you want. then set your output up to compensate for the dynamics reduction.
 
or just get good at singing at proper volume levels at proper distances from your mic...engineers have gotten lazy, i think...
 
clubzero said:
You're not the only one having trouble with that over hyped compression... who needs it? If u make the original mix right, equalize and use a loudness maximizer who cares for compression.. :D


Club Zero
Click to expand...

loudnes maximizer = compressor
 
loudness maximizer is a compressor?...it just made my cuts over all louder...the softer parts were still softer than the louder parts..it didn't make everything equal...
 
I don't have/use much software comps so I'll stay out of there, but can you do volume envelopes or automation in your software to control the larger volume fixes, and then use the compressor to smooth out the rest, or for the effect you want?
Sometimes when we are trying to do both with a compressor, it's actually needing two; One set real slow as a volume rider, and one to squash like we normally would.
 
mixsit:
i agree. it's one thing to use a compressor to control peaks in a vocal, or to smooth out a bass. it's another thing to try to use a compressor/limiter so you don't have to adjust your faders.

samich17:
a maximizer is a compressor set as a limiter. it prevents your signals from going over a set level, and then boosts the volume of the whole track. for instance, you've got a track that peaks at
-3db, so you set your maximizer at -6db. what you've done is set your compressor so that absolutely no signal gets past -6db.

that's why it always makes me laugh when people talk about how they don't believe in normalization and then turn around and say that they use a maximizer.
 
<that's why it always makes me laugh when people talk about how they don't believe in normalization and then turn around and say that they use a maximizer.>

Except that normalizing doesn't compress. I don't see that it does anything to the sound. (hopefully)
On the other hand, a little L2 does wonders for bringing up the ambiences and stuff.
 
thank you for responding...i don't use a normalizer, because i notice that it just raises the over all volume, doesn't compress as far as i can tell...i am reading more about compression and limiting and realizing that it does have it's place in making a final mix a bit better, but as i've stated before...i think that if i could just become better at getting the loudest recordings and mixing appropriately...i wouldn't have to rely on compressors to complete my mix...i'd rather have elaborate knowledge than elaborate equipment...please add more thoughts.
 
i personally love compressors. you can never have enough of them, just as microphones. even though you can use envelope automation to make volume more even, compression does actually change the sound, and if it's a good unit/plugin, it colors the sound with a nice hue.
you can totally change the way an instrument sounds by using compression (and eq), but you all know that.
compressors have a 'personality' of their own, which is why you should use more than one in a recording. some are nicer for soft clean music, others are more appropriate for agressive rhythmic sounds, while others are just plain 'squishy'.
limiting should really be kept to a minimum, and only be done at the final stage of a mix.
of course, you can always overdo an effect (sometimes for a cool effect), but the intelligent use of compression is one of the things that set an amateur production apart from a pro one (i think i said this here before?). you should just make sure that you're making informed decisions, and that you compression for a reason, not just because you heard that compressing stuff is good.;)

adriano
 
Wow, there seems to be a lot of misconception about what the uses of a compressor are. Using a compressor to level out a performance with some loud parts and some quiet parts seems like a REALLY bad idea to me. Thats what fader automation and envelopes are for as someone else mentioned. It depends on your situation, but in order to make the quietly played parts as loud as the loudly played parts, you'd have to squash the living hell out of the track. Remember, the perceived loudness of a track is not the peak level, but the average level. So just because you've compressed a track to get the quiet parts peaking at the same level as the loud parts, the difference in loudness between the two is probably still pretty much the same. And if you've compressed it enough so they are the same volume, you've probably killed the dynamics of the loud part.

Compression really does change how and instrument sounds, too. Think about a snare hit for a minute. You've got the first transient peak which is mostly the stick hitting the top head, then the body of the snare, then the resonance and ringing (at least my snare rings a little). So, depending on how you set your attack, release and threshold, etc. you can emphasize any part of that sound. Same with a kick drum - you can get more of the beater, the boom or the decay depending on how you compress it.

Hard limiting is useful in many cases where you've got a couple loud peaks, but be careful especially when limiting (or compressing) an entire mix because it can really screw things up if you're not careful.

There are some pretty good posts and articles about how compression works and how to use it. I suggest you read up. Compression is one of the most overused, and least understood elements of recording.
 
Another thing. Use the bypass switch a LOT to hear what you're actually doing to the sound. And just because its louder, that doesn't mean it sounds better.
 
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