compress during tracking??

[xstatic]

Mr Guerilla may have it backwards. I would reccomend newbies record dry and start with plugins until they know more about their equipment and what there product needs to be like. Also, who says the big studios record dry? Sounds like an urban myth to me.

 

[Fishmed]

Mr Guerilla may have it backwards. I would reccomend newbies record dry and start with plugins until they know more about their equipment and what there product needs to be like. Also, who says the big studios record dry? Sounds like an urban myth to me.

I could easily see a big studio record with some compression. Their engineers will have broader experience, and the talent will be more skilled to control their dynamics.

I knew a guy locally who had been in the business for quite a long time, and he would record with compression at the time of tracking. I don't think it was anything drastic, more like strong limiting.

 

[FALKEN]

You should know what you want the instrument to sound like before you record it. You've got to do whatever it takes to get that sound on tape. you put up the mics, you position them, you get your preamp in line, you get compressors out, eq, whatever you need to make that instrument sound the way you want it to. Am I in an alternate universe here?

 

[sync]

You should know what you want the instrument to sound like before you record it. You've got to do whatever it takes to get that sound on tape. you put up the mics, you position them, you get your preamp in line, you get compressors out, eq, whatever you need to make that instrument sound the way you want it to.

I'm glad you brought that up. That's something I've been thinking about. I don't see how you can come up with a great song if you don't have a good idea of what you want before you start recording. That doesn't mean there isn't room for some additional creativity as you're working on the song.

The only part of this I'm unsure of is how you determine how a processed instrument will fit in the mix. I guess that's where experience comes.

 

[Robert D]

You should know what you want the instrument to sound like before you record it. You've got to do whatever it takes to get that sound on tape. you put up the mics, you position them, you get your preamp in line, you get compressors out, eq, whatever you need to make that instrument sound the way you want it to. Am I in an alternate universe here?

No, you're pretty well on point, except that if the track being laid down is early in the process, or if you don't have a lot of experience, you may not know what it wants to sound like in the context of the mix. If it's an overdub being done to an already not so ruff mix, then yes, you should have a sonic goal well in mind that you can commit to at the front end.

 

[MOFO Pro]

It's a personal decision... there's no right or wrong... there's what you're comfortable with... what works for you..

Kind of like sequencing midi tracks... some print the audio out from the sound module before the final mix down... I prefer to leave all my options open and not print midi controlled audio until the final mixdown... let's me change the instrument as the mix fills in, and my original choice just isn't sitting well.

 

[musicstew]

One very important advantage to NOT using compression, EQ or anything when tracking is that you can change it any way you wish later.

That allows for any kind of change you may want at the mix stage.

Also you may get a better compressor in 6 months and wish you hadn't pasted your old one to the track.

-Stew

 

[orson198305]

You guys are sounding like all singers have the same level of experience, and that's really not the case, is it? Speaking for myself, I know what levels to track at, but some singers unfortunately do need outside "compensation" in the form of a compressor.

Billy Mackenzie well known as being one of the greatest singers was known to burst microphones etc. Because he could sing so softly then immediatly empty his lungs on a track. If your saying that singers should keep their voice at the same level throughout a track either by moving away from the mic etc when bursting into an emotional fit, then MR Mackenzie would have had to jump back a couple of meters for some of his recordings. Compression is not an aid for the more talentless or inexperianced. It is NEEDED especially when you have someone who is able to express true feeling in a take. By compressing to start off with you are less likely to overcompress when you are using compression to bring the vocals to life. Because you have now got a fairly even vocal line recorded. When the whole mix is recorded then you can see how much you REALLY have to compress something to bring it to front.

 

[Robert D]

By compressing to start off with you are less likely to overcompress when you are using compression to bring the vocals to life. Because you have now got a fairly even vocal line recorded. When the whole mix is recorded then you can see how much you REALLY have to compress something to bring it to front.

I don't compress vocals to bring them to the front, I compress them to keep them sitting there after I use the fader to bring them to the front. For the most part, the amount of compression necessary to achieve this is virtually impossible to determine during tracking (for me at least), unless adding vocals to an already mixed project. But really, I'm not against compressing on the way in, mildly and for tonal purposes, or when necessary for the ribbon eating Billy Mckenzies of the world.

 

[orson198305]

Mabye an example? Can you un-twist your little mind around that concept?

And he blew Dynamic mics "Not sexually, just incase you want to add to allready horrendous armoury of humour"

 

[fraserhutch]

By compressing to start off with you are less likely to overcompress when you are using compression to bring the vocals to life. Because you have now got a fairly even vocal line recorded. When the whole mix is recorded then you can see how much you REALLY have to compress something to bring it to front.

I have serious issues with this statement. How does compressing on theway in and forcing that on a track before you know how it will sit in the mix make you less apt to overcompress later on: That makes NO sense at all. What compression I put on while tracking I can also put on while mixing - in fact, I can press the solo button on that track and apply the exact same compression at that time with the same result, the major difference being that I have not locked myself into that compression.

 

[soundchaser59]

If you're compressing for "flavor" - when the unit is an integral part of the sound - Do it.

If you're compressing for level, you're recording too hot anyway. If you're using proper levels, there is no danger of even coming close to full scale.

Thats the ticket......it took me years to accept this truth. Now my compressor doesn't touch the voice on the way in.

But I have used a comp for effect on a split mic, one dry and one compressed. Something I got from Rami's "Motown Compressor" trick.

But on a solo voice, especially a female singing something "up close and personal" no compressor, no way......

 

[nuemes]

My vocal chain is mic > Avalon M5 > RNC > computer.

RNC at 2.1-4.1 ratio, super friendly mode, no more than 4Db of gain reduction at highest peaks. Helps keep the levels from getting out of control. Doesn't add color or sound compressed this way.

 

[gtrman_66]

One of the first things I consider when I'm making these decisions is by whom and where is the project to be mixed? I did a project a couple years ago that went to another studio to be mixed by a very compotent pro engineer. When I saw the compressor list at the mixdown facility, there was no way in hell I was going to muck up the tracks with whatI had on hand, much better to track everything the best I could flat and dry and let the big dogs eat when it got to mixdown.

Also, another thing to consider is, if you have enough tracks, do one vocal track of each, dry and compressesd at the same time so you can pick or mix and match later. Send the vocal direct to one track and buss it compressed to another track at the same time, if you have the signal routing capability to do so. If you later decide you really, really hate the compression sound on the take, but love the performance, you're not stuck with the compressed track for eternity

 

[Robert D]

Mabye an example? Can you un-twist your little mind around that concept?

Not sure who this was addressed to, but since it followed me, it might be me. Sooo....... (I'll ignore the little mind comment)
I was replying to your "By compressing to start off with you are less likely to overcompress" post. Like Fraserhutch, I don't get it. In fact, I really, really don't get it, since it runs counter to the logic of "if I compress on the way in, I'm likely to overcompress and not be able to un-compress." Example? Of what? Not cranking up the compression to bring the vocal up front, using the fader instead, and adding the necessary amount of compression to keep it sitting there? That's just a standard methodology, I think. A typical vocal is going to have an average level that's right for the mix, and it's going to have places where it alternately sticks out or is too quiet. It's kind of like adjusting a video monitor's vertical position by first adjusting the vertical position to center it, and then adjusting the verical size to fit top to bottom.

 

[tubejay]

I agree with the general sentiment here that you do light compression during tracking. It depends on the singer though. Some singers require a better sounding track off the bat (ie more compression) to get the best performance. With that said, I like to do whatever is going to give me the best performance. Then I tend to compress the vocal more heavily during mixing.

 

[xstatic]

In NO way does compressing on the way in help you to not overcompress. In fact, it only makes you more likely to overcompress since you have already applied compression to a track that come mixdown may not need any. to say otherwise is silly in my opinion.

It was also mentioned above by someone that they use no more than 4 db of gain reduction at the highest peaks to "help keep the levels from getting out of control". In my opinion, this is a perfect example of why NOT to compress on the way in. If you are only using 4 db of compression on the highest peaks, than it is pointless and the compression can wait until mixdown. 4 db of dynamic swing does not even begin to come close to what I consider to be an out of control level. If you need that 4 db for your converters (to avoid clipping) than you are recording too hot. In fact, if you have to have that 4 db, something may be either set up wrong, or you are also quickly approaching the limit of your preamp as well as your converters. If however you have a hardware compressor that you can not really use during mixdown and you need the specific sound that it adds, then I say by all means go for it.

To me, compression during tracking is to be used as a tool. It is something that I want to affect the sound of my tracks, and something that I choose to use because it's sonic signature is something to be desired. During tracking I NEVER use a compressor for gain riding. Instead, I choose to use gain structure. During mixdown however, compressors can be useful for some dynamic control.

 

[orson198305]

I'm not talking about heavily compressing something in the way in, i'm talking about limiting really, or lightly compressing - soft knee. I find that when i record in this way tracks are easier to digest because there are no overly annoying rises in signal etc. So i am less likely to compress as much. I am able to see the mix as a whole instead of concentrating on certain less meaningful things on the one track. "Oh mabye that dynamic (because it's not over-the-top) acually fits in there, in fact i may use a time based effect and split the signal to another track to create a little something different". I like dynamics in a track, i hate overcompression, i'm not a traditionalist, this seems to work for me.

 

[bigtoe]

i for sure use it for gain riding during tracking in cases where the singer cannot hear him/herself due to level nuttiness...it'll need it in the mix anyway.

i dunno - once you learn to use compression - there really isn't an issue of when to put it on...you put it on when the track requires it.

Mike

 

[Fishmed]

I would think if you compress/limit a little as you track and then compress again at mix down there is no difference than applying all the compression on during mix down and none during tracking; you are ultimately bringing the db peaks down X% that is needed for the mix.

If you have to use compression/limiting during tracking for singers to hear themselves sing, then you have your other tracks too hot. Bring down the volume of the other tracks and raise the master level for the headphones.

Have I lost it or has common sense flown out the window?

I do agree with the few instances where compression/limiting during tracking would be good: for effect and mixing in the box with an outboard compressor.

The bottom line: Do what gets you the results you want.