compress during tracking??

[jmorris]

I have read interviews in mix mag a while back on vocal recording. I 'll did up the issue date. It talks to some "big" name engineers on their style of vocal recording. I think all said they compress on the way in, some even use 2 compressors together and really slam it. It was interesting. It funny as some times with subject like this, even the big boys have totally different technics of how they do it.

 

[_brian_]

I'm not talking about heavily compressing something in the way in, i'm talking about limiting really, or lightly compressing - soft knee. I find that when i record in this way tracks are easier to digest because there are no overly annoying rises in signal etc. So i am less likely to compress as much. I am able to see the mix as a whole instead of concentrating on certain less meaningful things on the one track. "Oh mabye that dynamic (because it's not over-the-top) acually fits in there, in fact i may use a time based effect and split the signal to another track to create a little something different". I like dynamics in a track, i hate overcompression, i'm not a traditionalist, this seems to work for me.

well i understand what you're saying.
i use compression when recording and as a last resort ill use during a mix

 

[Robert D]

I have read interviews in mix mag a while back on vocal recording. I 'll did up the issue date. It talks to some "big" name engineers on their style of vocal recording. I think all said they compress on the way in, some even use 2 compressors together and really slam it. It was interesting. It funny as some times with subject like this, even the big boys have totally different technics of how they do it.

Of course there's a couple of differences between those Pro AEs and most of us on this board........ they have big dollar, highly coveted HW comps to use, and they have platinum record producing experience. I'd venture to guess that they were mostly old school AEs, from the days when it was common practice to compress on the way in because there were only so many compressors in the rack, and you couldn't just click on more instances of a software 1176 or Fairchild.
Really, it comes down to whether you gain more from committing to your limited hardware choices, or choosing from an array of SW comps and/or going back out to HW, and the ability to audition and tweak all the way till the final master. Either way is perfectly valid if it yields the best sounding tracks you can make with your equipment. I lean towards flexibility myself, lacking both the coveted HW and the big time skills and experience to know I'll get it right everytime up front.

 

[EDAN]

Mr Guerilla may have it backwards. I would reccomend newbies record dry and start with plugins until they know more about their equipment and what there product needs to be like. Also, who says the big studios record dry? Sounds like an urban myth to me.

Again, I refer to "Behind The Glass", a few big wig producers interviewed say they track with effects, all kinds including reverbs and delays, but most said they will also record a dry track as well, just incase. I was surprised to learn many of these producers have set effects they use on most of their albums, certain reverbs etc and settings that they go to all the time.

 

[Fishmed]

I was surprised to learn many of these producers have set effects they use on most of their albums, certain reverbs etc and settings that they go to all the time.

This probablly helps them establish their "signature sound", just part of the grand formula.

 

[riffy]

Most of the time for vocals, depending on the mood, I will use my Art Pro VLA to tape. This unit probably has more of a "sound" than the others that you have mentioned.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

i got tired of reading all the back-and-forth bickering on this thread, but anyways...since i do all my mixing ITB and don't have hardware compressors, i don't have to worry about this crap

i'll almost always load some compressor or another, along with some generic preset while tracking, just to make things sound a little more even/polished to the musicians...same w/ the eq...then i'll go back and tweak the eq/comp settings to fit the singer and the mix

however, when i've done work in larger studios w/ analog gear, there's no compressing during tracking - i feel that proper level setting/gain staging with quality equipment should work well enough to keep any peaks from clipping, and like many have said before me, i would never want to print a compressor or any other effects to the raw tracks. if there was ever a situation where i absolutely NEEDED to print with something, i'd probably want to use an 1176 or some other soft limiter...but again, proper gain staging should make this unnecessary

 

[orson198305]

Yeah more headroom in analogue situations (less likely to clip), Digital, really don't know how you guys can record dry tracks of descent levels. You must either have intrumentalists & vocalists with no passion (lack of dynamics from the source) or recording at a very low level.

Someone who knows how to setup an outboard gate, compressor, limiter will never allow the gear to ruin a take, this proves that some of the opinions given are from a very amature background. The equipment is there to prevent the ruining of a take and produce an optimum amount of amplitude at the same time. THIS CANNOT BE DONE BY A SOFTWARE COMPRESSOR as the signal has allready been recorded at this time. There is no argument here, this is physics and common sense so stop arguing.

You may have a point in that you think that it makes it sound less or more to your taste when using hardware or software compressors. But this argument can only be introduced when a signal has allready been recorded. And is purely down to taste.

The other part of the argument is that no compression in the way in. (This i like to call the smelly hippy routine, man i'm watsted) If you want a RAW sound and you want to record conceptually with sm57's no matter the source then i'm all for that. But understand that that is down to your taste, nothing other than that. It doesn't mean that this is the way it should be done, i like the sound of digital clipping in some of the things i've done, are you going to turn round and say, hey, that's clipping that's the wrong way to do it. No that's taste, my tsaste.

If you want to make a good recording, gate, compress limit (whatever) in the way in. Once you master recording of the source with a compressor then you can make a concept album using no compression, if you like that then don't bother with compression.

(By the way you have to spend a bit more money for a descent hardware compressor, sorry a lot more. Crap compressors (for this task) are your behringers etc, if you saying lads that you would not use (if you had one) a fairchild 670 or a cranesong etc) then you are crazy) Remember i'm not talking about hippy conceptual recordings

What this thread should have been about is... with a budget of $etc compress during tracking?

 

[xstatic]

Some good points Orson, and some left field ones as well. I have absolutely no problem getting good takes of dynamic sources wih no compression and proper digital levels. Digital is different and this has been discussed a lot lately. If you are tracking with an averagedigital level of -8, you are tracking waaaay to hot. Ana,ogequipment is intended to be integrated around the -18 or so mark at average optimum level. Also, you mentioned earlier tracking with light compression. If you really are tracking with light compression, than you are not really getting better levels. At least not to any noticable or appreciable degree. So this to me would not be a valid defense of compressing during tracking. I do agree though that there is a HUGE difference between using a cheap compressor and a nice one.

 

[orson198305]

Yeah totally agree, i don't use compression when in my home amateur studio computer based blah blah blah (i'm annoyed computer is acting up to say the least ). I use a tascam portastudio i bought reciently for ideas etc, i use guitar fx for tracking (source-fx-record) eg the "wrong" way to do it. I then use those ideas in my computer based studio, i may use dbx compression on bass & vocals, but as i have said before i use it more of an effect more than anything. Once everything is arranged & i have a couple of songs i'm proud of i'll move onto the studio where i will compress before recording.

I think it comes down to a couple of things;

If your a songwriter recording ideas for a band - no need for pre-compression

If your a band recording a demo (dependeant on sources) - no need for pre-compression.

If you want to become a producer engineer etc, you NEED to use pre-compression to get used to it & learn your trade. Using software will in no way help you set up an outboard compressor. And you will definately need to call upon that experiance later on. This curve isn't a linear one day or week thing. It can take years. So do yourself a favour and use it

 

[Ironklad Audio]

you know you don't need to compress on the way in order to use an outboard compressor, right?

this is why i'm still a fan of going from mic to pre to HD/tape/whatever...focus on the performance while tracking, then patch into the compressor later and tweak it until it sounds right

but...to each his own, so use what works for you

 

[Robert D]

i got tired of reading all the back-and-forth bickering on this thread, but anyways...since i do all my mixing ITB and don't have hardware compressors, i don't have to worry about this crap

I must have missed all the back and forth bickering. I thought it was a pretty civil exchange of ideas and experiences. If everyone agreed 100% on everything, well what would be the point of a forum?

 

[amra]

How about compressing when recording "death metal" or screaming vocals?

I always seem to get better results when I do some hard limiting - but basically just limiting hard at -5db threshold (at the converters). The compressor never kicks on except for the loudest screams, and then just to keep them from going over. This really helps me when I am dealing with an inexperienced or careless singer, or someone who isn't consistent with the mic. It seems like I can capture more power in the screams and growls this way, without worrying about overs...

peace!
amra

 

[eeieeio]

I have read interviews in mix mag a while back on vocal recording. I 'll did up the issue date. It talks to some "big" name engineers on their style of vocal recording. I think all said they compress on the way in, some even use 2 compressors together and really slam it. It was interesting. It funny as some times with subject like this, even the big boys have totally different technics of how they do it.

I have been following this thread, personally I know nothing and I'm new at all this. But I did pick up a book the was recommended out here called behind the glass and I did do a lot of research on the internet, reading many interviews with major label producers and engineers in all kinds of music and I have learned that far more of them track vocals with compression than do not so I guess being new at this I'm confused why a few here insist this is not the way to do it when the pros consistently do.

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

I almost always track with light compression when doing vocals or bass, just to even it out a bit and catching any peaks that could occur. Usually the bass gets some more compression in the mix, while the vocals are normally fine as is. Distorted guitars never gets compressed ever, and drums usually get parallell compression at mixdown.

Printing compression to tape isn't a problem if you know what you're doing, and leaving to many choices until mixdown can bring a couple of new ones. Also, if you're using an all-hardware setup, compressing while tracking can free up some compressor units for mixdown, if you don't have racks full of them.

 

[orson198305]

Hi i have recieved negative feedback for my opinions;

"you are so ignorant - stop trying to pass yourself off as an expect. You aren't. You're as amateur as they come."

I think this is what really removes from forums, idiots who cannot put their point across passively. They don't agree with something for no other reason than their opinion on a subject. I may have been strong with my opinions but i have not given anyone negative feedback for disagreeing with me, and i never will.

 

[riffy]

Don't sweat it Orson. From my short time being here I have learned that there are some folks here who simple can't take it when you say something that is contrary to their opinion. No problem. These people just spell out their utter ignorances, vanity and lack of courtesy. Then on top of that, some don't even sign their complaints just to further prove their laughable cowardice.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

rep points are gay anyway

 

[Robert D]

rep points are gay anyway

So it's like golf, lower score is better (less gay)? Cool, I'm a solidly hetero 86.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

yea, well, i have you beat out with my teeny tiny 23!