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gatholonobs
New member
Anyone know how to clean dirty pots on a BBE processor? I've taken it apart and sprayed what I can access with comp air but the pots seem to be sealed and inaccessible.
JazzMang
He's Junktastic!
you could always find what types of pots they were and just replace them with something better.
Although, IMHO, the BBE processors do more harm than good... bastardizing your tracks or mixes with the processor commonly happens when people overuse these types of units.
Although, IMHO, the BBE processors do more harm than good... bastardizing your tracks or mixes with the processor commonly happens when people overuse these types of units.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Compressed air?
Get a can of DeOxit or something... Air is only going to blow the dust bunnies away from the pots.
And we can only hope that there are dust bunnies around the pots (because it is used so infrequently).
Get a can of DeOxit or something... Air is only going to blow the dust bunnies away from the pots.
And we can only hope that there are dust bunnies around the pots (because it is used so infrequently).
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gemsbok
New member
some pots have metal tabs you can bend over and pull the cover off to spray inside. some pots have vent holes you can use the straw of the cleaner can to get in there. i used tuner cleaner. i dont think air alone will work and would probably put moisture in there. other than that call bbe and get some replacement parts or send it in for repair. i love bbe on heavy guitar and my home stereo. i wouldnt use it on everything.
Farview
Well-known member
Have you tried dousing it in lighter fluid and setting it on fire?
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soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
You guys are too hard on BBE. Maybe because so many people just over use the things?? The maximizer used correctly is an essential tool in any home or semi-pro rack.
Farview
Well-known member
People do over use the things, but I can't see why it is essential. It made sense when a home studio was a 4 track cassette, but if you are getting dull sounds recording digitally, you deserve it and should have to live with it.
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soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
The best use I've ever heard for a BBE is on a drum kit. It simply brings a drum machine to life. I'll never mix without it now that I know what it can do....
JazzMang
He's Junktastic!
'Essential' is a bit of a stretch here. Simple things such as mic placement, instrument selection, and a little knowledge of EQ can go a long way.soundchaser59 said:
Although units like this possess some ability to actually make something sound slightly better, what usually happens is that the unit is used to bastardize tracks due to overuse by amateurs.
'lets turn it up to 11!'
Farview
Well-known member
As if drum machines weren't bright enough.soundchaser59 said:
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soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
'Essential' is a bit of a stretch here. Simple things such as mic placement, instrument selection, and a little knowledge of EQ can go a long way.
Perhaps, I do undertand why you say this, but after toying with both EQ and BBE, I've learned that the BBE is my first choice since EQ adds to the signal levels and forces me to readjust my mix. The BBE does not add or take anything away from the source sound. I always try the maximizer first, before I try EQ on my mix.
As if drum machines weren't bright enough.
Some are, but not all. They have gotten better in the last few years. The BBE really makes mine sound more like a live kit than a machine, and makes it fit into the mix a lot better. But I dont consider my machine to be a "bag of rocks" either, like the older Boss and Roland machines were.
Perhaps, I do undertand why you say this, but after toying with both EQ and BBE, I've learned that the BBE is my first choice since EQ adds to the signal levels and forces me to readjust my mix. The BBE does not add or take anything away from the source sound. I always try the maximizer first, before I try EQ on my mix.
As if drum machines weren't bright enough.
Some are, but not all. They have gotten better in the last few years. The BBE really makes mine sound more like a live kit than a machine, and makes it fit into the mix a lot better. But I dont consider my machine to be a "bag of rocks" either, like the older Boss and Roland machines were.
Farview
Well-known member
The BBE only does one thing to the highs and one thing to the lows. Are you trying to say that everything you record has one (or both) of these specific problems? That doesn't seem very likely.soundchaser59 said:
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mrface2112
Well-known member
Farview said:
LOL
or you could try cleaning the pots with an 8lb sledge.....that'd work.
cheers,
wade
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Big Kenny
New member
When I frst started recording I loved the BBE, it made my crappy recording interesting. Now it just interferes with decently recorded tracks.
If eqing is messing with your sound, maybe you should be using eq as a "take certain annoying freq's out" rather than adding freq's. It shouldn't make you readjust your mix.
Mic placement has so much more to do with it than what machine or trick to use to cover it up or blend it.
If eqing is messing with your sound, maybe you should be using eq as a "take certain annoying freq's out" rather than adding freq's. It shouldn't make you readjust your mix.
Mic placement has so much more to do with it than what machine or trick to use to cover it up or blend it.
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soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
The maximizer is based on what I would describe as frequency-band-dependent delays intended to "time align" the sound coming from the speakers in order to compensate for something akin to phase interference inherent in speaker fidelity. I dont work for BBE, so I dont know the dazzling technical explanation for it, but "time aligned sound" will suffice for me.
I dont think "time alignment" constitutes "adding or taking away from the source sound." It does not add any eq or harmonics or any artificial exciting or enhancing or brightening or whatever to the sound. Time alignment may result in the speaker being able to more faithfully reproduce the freqs and harmonics that were supposed to be there in the first place, but it is not because the maximizer tries to add them back in somehow. I dont notice my meters going red on me or changing at all when I touch up the sound with the maximizer, but the levels definitely change when I use eq, whether boosting or cutting, which in turn means I might have to adjust fader levels if I eq cut or boost something too much.
I dont use too much maximizer like some people might do, I learned that lesson the hard way. I try to get it to where I have to really pay attention and try hard to hear the difference when I A/B using the bypass switch. But I can hear the difference and I like it, and nothing else creates that difference as cleanly or as easily as the maximizer does. I really dont think my tracking is bad, and I dont think the BBE is compensating for weak tracking or crappy mixing the way I use it. Yes mic placement has a lot to do with it, and I have learned a few lessons about mic placement that resulted in me realizing that I was using the BBE for the wrong reasons. But that only applies to tracks made with a mic, which says nothing about my drum machine sound, my keyboards, my bass, or how my fx blend in. Most people never even know I have a maximizer on the mix until I tell them.
And the price of this post tells you exactly what it's worth....... but I appreciate the opinions. You will definitely make me even more careful about how I record and mix and how I use that BBE. And that's a good thing!
I dont think "time alignment" constitutes "adding or taking away from the source sound." It does not add any eq or harmonics or any artificial exciting or enhancing or brightening or whatever to the sound. Time alignment may result in the speaker being able to more faithfully reproduce the freqs and harmonics that were supposed to be there in the first place, but it is not because the maximizer tries to add them back in somehow. I dont notice my meters going red on me or changing at all when I touch up the sound with the maximizer, but the levels definitely change when I use eq, whether boosting or cutting, which in turn means I might have to adjust fader levels if I eq cut or boost something too much.
I dont use too much maximizer like some people might do, I learned that lesson the hard way. I try to get it to where I have to really pay attention and try hard to hear the difference when I A/B using the bypass switch. But I can hear the difference and I like it, and nothing else creates that difference as cleanly or as easily as the maximizer does. I really dont think my tracking is bad, and I dont think the BBE is compensating for weak tracking or crappy mixing the way I use it. Yes mic placement has a lot to do with it, and I have learned a few lessons about mic placement that resulted in me realizing that I was using the BBE for the wrong reasons. But that only applies to tracks made with a mic, which says nothing about my drum machine sound, my keyboards, my bass, or how my fx blend in. Most people never even know I have a maximizer on the mix until I tell them.
And the price of this post tells you exactly what it's worth....... but I appreciate the opinions. You will definitely make me even more careful about how I record and mix and how I use that BBE. And that's a good thing!
JazzMang
He's Junktastic!
In all honesty, the time alignment thing kinda nibbles at my brain and gives me a sort of 'wtf' feeling. All that time alignment stuff sounds nice and dandy, but in my experience there is no way in hell a cheapo rackmount unit with little to no processing power could possibly do something as advanced as frequency-dependant time alignment without screwing up the phases of other frequencies.
To me, these units sound like harmonic exciters with a little bit of multiband compression going on. Don't believe the marketing hype. It is quite the unintelligent unit and I would not trust my sound with it.
To me, these units sound like harmonic exciters with a little bit of multiband compression going on. Don't believe the marketing hype. It is quite the unintelligent unit and I would not trust my sound with it.
Farview
Well-known member
Even if you actually believe that all speakers have the same type of time alignment problem, such that you could fix it all with one knob, you couldn't think that while you were mixing, you are aligning the frequencies so that it will be heard accuratley on every speaker system out there.soundchaser59 said:
If you change the timing of different frequencies, you are change the phase relationship. When you change that, you will get cancelation. You are introducing phase cancelation into your tracks.
A lot of studio monitors have the tweeter recessed into the cabinet, that is to time align the sound. If you set the bbe to 'fix' the timing for your monitors, you could be screwing it up for your stereo, of , God forbid, your car. Your car stereo most likely has 4 speakers with tweeters both in front of and behind you. Hell, both the left tweeters couldn't posibly be in time with each other. How its the BBE going to fix that?
You have fallen for the hype. If you really like what it does to your sound, that's fine. Don't fall for the whole 'loud speakers are imperfect, this magic box will fix everything' B.S.
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soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
I'm not qualified to answer those kinds of questions. I suspect if the maximizer was pure hype they woudl not have stayed in business this long, but I could be wrong......look at Behringer!
But I am not trying to argue with you, although I admit I do like some friendly hair-splitting. As long as you are making me think about it, I'll tell you this.....
I have learned quite a bit from lurking around these forums in the last year. One of the most important things I've learned recently is how the untreated basement in which I've been mixing tunes on old Imperial Star Destroyer Cerwin Vega refrigerator speakers can utterly devastate any inkling fantasy I may have been entertaining about hearing accurate sound. Therefore, I must force myself to consider your arguments. In raw Vulcan fashion, I am logically compelled to admit that it is at least possible that the reason I like the maximizer is because of the crappy damage my untreated room is doing to the crappy damage my unreferenced monitors are doing to what might otherwise have been a decent mix.
After I treat the acoustics in the basement with abosrbers and bass traps and replace my Star Destroyers with real reference monitors, it is quite possible that I may find I either do not need or do not appreciate the maximizer effect. I would extend you guys credit at least for presenting your questions in such a manner as to make me realize the possibility. I will consider it, test it, and I appreciate being led to the knowledge.
But I will also confess in advance that it will take some downright bash-me-in-the-face-and-make-snot-blow-out-my-@ss evidence to persuade me to completely abandon the maximizer. Most likely I will hear the differences made by acoustic treatment and real monitors, and I will drastically adjust my maximizer use - as well as my mixing "strategy" in general - rather than abandon the BBE outright. The BBE will have to just completely trash my sounds before I will cut it loose and relegate it to coaster land!
So, in that light, I thank you for your valid and well meaning questions. I guarantee you it will be considered and tried! I will adjust as needed, because in the end it is the sound that gets burned to that cd that really matters!
But I am not trying to argue with you, although I admit I do like some friendly hair-splitting. As long as you are making me think about it, I'll tell you this.....
I have learned quite a bit from lurking around these forums in the last year. One of the most important things I've learned recently is how the untreated basement in which I've been mixing tunes on old Imperial Star Destroyer Cerwin Vega refrigerator speakers can utterly devastate any inkling fantasy I may have been entertaining about hearing accurate sound. Therefore, I must force myself to consider your arguments. In raw Vulcan fashion, I am logically compelled to admit that it is at least possible that the reason I like the maximizer is because of the crappy damage my untreated room is doing to the crappy damage my unreferenced monitors are doing to what might otherwise have been a decent mix.
After I treat the acoustics in the basement with abosrbers and bass traps and replace my Star Destroyers with real reference monitors, it is quite possible that I may find I either do not need or do not appreciate the maximizer effect. I would extend you guys credit at least for presenting your questions in such a manner as to make me realize the possibility. I will consider it, test it, and I appreciate being led to the knowledge.
But I will also confess in advance that it will take some downright bash-me-in-the-face-and-make-snot-blow-out-my-@ss evidence to persuade me to completely abandon the maximizer. Most likely I will hear the differences made by acoustic treatment and real monitors, and I will drastically adjust my maximizer use - as well as my mixing "strategy" in general - rather than abandon the BBE outright. The BBE will have to just completely trash my sounds before I will cut it loose and relegate it to coaster land!
So, in that light, I thank you for your valid and well meaning questions. I guarantee you it will be considered and tried! I will adjust as needed, because in the end it is the sound that gets burned to that cd that really matters!
JazzMang
He's Junktastic!
No one wants you to throw away the BBE, but in all honesty it inhibits you from reaching a higher potential, because it becomes your crutch when your mixes/buses/tracks lack clarity/punch/etc...
All we are saying is that there are better ways to do what you are trying to do. No partonizing here.
All we are saying is that there are better ways to do what you are trying to do. No partonizing here.
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AdrianFly
New member
I give Soundchaser59 props for using Star Trek/Star Wars lingo in his post.
Even in audio, you must sometimes ditch the technology and "Use the Force" to achieve a proper master.
Now we need some Ewoks to throw rocks and drop some logs on a bunch of Sonic Maximizers and we will have a show!
Even in audio, you must sometimes ditch the technology and "Use the Force" to achieve a proper master.
Now we need some Ewoks to throw rocks and drop some logs on a bunch of Sonic Maximizers and we will have a show!