Chucking a tantalum?

Indeed, but I figured it would show up the "most" noise. I certainly don't actually use it like that (hehe)... perhaps it's an unfair measure.

So each channel, in the mic preamps there is a 748 up front, and 3 x 4558s for the eq and other gain stages. The line ins omit the 748 but are otherwise similar.

In the main section there is another 2 x 4558s (for each side), one being used as a virtual ground (which I do not fully understand how that works) and one as the actual output.

Sadly all the 4558s (which is the bulk of them by far) aren't socketed, so I've gotta put some sockets in to try different ones. Ugh.

My initial plan is to socket the main output 4558s and one channel and try some TL072s in there to see what's what.

Does that sound like a decent starting point? Should I change the "virtual earth" op amps too?

Oh and thanks for all the info so far too!

Virtual earth is likely the summing amp, look up active summing opamp circuits for more info. I wouldn't sub in TL072 for 4558 as it's higher voltage noise. Really, the noise of 4558 should be OK anywhere except the mic input stage. I don't know the noise figure on 748.

I'm not into sockets, I would just swap in OPA2134 for 4558 and maybe OPA227 for 748. I am more familiar with TI parts; there are probably other good choices too. But I say pick 'em up front, solder them in and get on with your life. Watch the PSU as 2134 is a little thirstier than 4558.

You're probably too far into this now, but it's always good to decide up front if a recap & mod is really worth it or not . . .
 
The LM748 is a Pretty crappy opamp , they are a very old single opamp, I would try a opa132 or opa134 (TI) , But make sure that if your board uses the frequency compensation cap to remove it with these Opamps (Or use a NE5534 and keep the compensation cap).....


:D
 
The LM748 is a Pretty crappy opamp , they are a very old single opamp, I would try a opa132 or opa134 (TI) , But make sure that if your board uses the frequency compensation cap to remove it with these Opamps (Or use a NE5534 and keep the compensation cap).....
:D
Yep I've heard they are not good, and at least the 748s are socketed already. It does have the extra compensation cap, but it's built in such a way that I don't think I could remove it too easily (it's super cramped up that end of the boards and I can't take the channels out which is highly irritating).

Will try the 5534, as my local store seems to have them in a few flavours (I think I'd be up for NE5534AN Ultra Low Noise)... Thanks!
 
Virtual earth is likely the summing amp, look up active summing opamp circuits for more info. I wouldn't sub in TL072 for 4558 as it's higher voltage noise. Really, the noise of 4558 should be OK anywhere except the mic input stage. I don't know the noise figure on 748.

I'm not into sockets, I would just swap in OPA2134 for 4558 and maybe OPA227 for 748. I am more familiar with TI parts; there are probably other good choices too. But I say pick 'em up front, solder them in and get on with your life. Watch the PSU as 2134 is a little thirstier than 4558.
Hmm. Maybe I'll leave the 4558s then... the socket plan was only for swap testing. Time to read up on active summing circuits, thanks!
You're probably too far into this now, but it's always good to decide up front if a recap & mod is really worth it or not . . .
Haha I hear you. But I got the desk for $35, and I'm about $30 into various parts. It's more a learning experience than a need to have a good desk at the end of it all. I'm sure I could get a lower noise, more compact and generally better desk for next to nothing, but I guess I like doing things myself. Hey, I've already learned a lot!
 
Projects are good too, and you can't beat that price. Heck, I recapped 16 channels of an A&H, plus did opamps on eight channels plus 2 masters . . . but sometimes when you get a cheap project, think about whether it's a good project or a good project box . . . fabbing a mixer case is very tough work, but banging out your own PCB (or getting the PCBs fabbed) is quite a lot easier.

I just don't like to do much desoldering anymore :o
 
what kinda board are we talking about anyhow??? old live desks can be fun and work pretty well for recording if serviced... i've hotrodded a soundcraft delta deluxe and an old studiomaster that my nephew still uses...
 
what kinda board are we talking about anyhow??? old live desks can be fun and work pretty well for recording if serviced... i've hotrodded a soundcraft delta deluxe and an old studiomaster that my nephew still uses...
Ah this is the slightly embarrassing part hehe. It's an 8 channel (well technically 10) desk made in Australia by a company called Jands, made around late seventies. They mostly do lighting stuff nowadays. It's called the "JM5", super super basic. Doesn't even have mute or solo, only PFL. No inserts or anything considered mildly useful ;)

I actually just use it as a convenient way to get sound into my pc when I'm jotting down ideas, so perhaps I should clarify it's use as more of a glorified patch bay than a "proper" mixing desk. Even so, I still want to put lipstick on this pig, polish this turd, blah blah.

Can't find my pictures of it so I'll take some more and post them up.
 
It's called the "JM5", super super basic. Doesn't even have mute or solo, only PFL. No inserts or anything considered mildly useful ;).

dont sweat it... it's something to work with... btw those pfl points could possibly make great individual channel outs...
 
See, that's even better. You don't want to screw with a desk with six aux sends, four EQ with two sweepable mids, group assigns etc. I mean, yeah, you wanna mix on a desk like that, but follow along:

Upgrade like two channels, leave the others stock. Pimp out the power supply. Review the grounding scheme and improve as necessary. Upgrade the master section.

Now, if this board has individual channel strip PCBs (somehow I gathered that it did), strip out two of them, and start thinking about something you'd like to stuff in their place instead. There are lots of preamp schemos out there, you could stuff in some serious cool EQ, etc.

One thing I hate about most cheap live desks is the EQ at 80Hz, 2kHz, and 12kHz, and a low cut at 75Hz. That gives me exactly two useful controls: 2kHz and the low cut switch. I say tailor those points to what you want to mix: I'd use 200Hz, 3kHz, and 8kHz shelf, along with the low cut. A sweepable mid is cool, but if I had an extra pot hole, I'd use it to stick in another band instead, probably 1kHz. I would tailor the Q differently for each band, but that's just me. Man, if I had that EQ for the gigs I normally do (church, school plays, etc.), I would weep tears of joy.

It will take you a long while to figure out and design what you need, but in the meantime you'll have two upgraded channels, four old channels, and an upgraded master. In the future, when you've fully pimped out all eight channels with your custom strip, you will rule the world! And when you're done, you'll understand waaaay more about electronics than opamp and cap swaps will teach you. And it will beat the crap out of spending $50-$100 on opamps and then deciding when you're done that the result is still just OK.
 
Thanks guys. All great ideas and honestly where I'm headed. Recapping, while improving the situation, isn't doing it for me. I've got the opamps in the mail but again, not really expecting much of a massive improvement. Rebuilding the channels entirely sounds like a better plan, but first I guess I need to know what I want before I can aim for it.

Geez, I don't even know where the EQ sits right now (it's only labelled hi mid low) so I should really do some more reading on all that stuff and how they work. The only real tone / eq stuff I've done before is trying different caps in my guitars (and thats )!

It is all individual boards and nice big full size pots (so a fair bit of room in there!)...good times ahead...

Forgot to take pictures again sorry. Will do soon so you can see this thing.

Thanks again!
 
here she blows

These are a little old now... but here it is!

Behold the sophisticated interface :D
IMG_2469.jpg


This is before the recapping commenced, so all the electrolytics are now replaced... lame heatsink hehe. Power supply could most definitely use "pimping out"...
IMG_2453.jpg


This is the thing that annoys me. The boards are all wired together, so if want to lift out one channel... you get the idea. Not insurmountable by any means but a bit of a pain. Perhaps it's just my inexperience shining through and all desks are like this...
IMG_2451.jpg


But at the end of the day, she's mine and she will be getting a lot of love. Once I work out where she likes it hehe.
 
These are a little old now... but here it is!

That's a nice box, I like that. You won't see wiring like that in a small mixer much anymore. Like the XLRs, they would be PCB mount now. On the minus side, all those bus wires. It's typical for a ground wire to be like that, but the busses are now usually on a ribbon cable with IDCs. You could swap out for those if you can get a connector on the same pin spacing as those wires.
 
That's a nice box, I like that. You won't see wiring like that in a small mixer much anymore. Like the XLRs, they would be PCB mount now. On the minus side, all those bus wires. It's typical for a ground wire to be like that, but the busses are now usually on a ribbon cable with IDCs. You could swap out for those if you can get a connector on the same pin spacing as those wires.
Yeah I was very pleasantly surprised with the "bigness" of everything, it's built to last... Heck I accidentally lifted a trace the other day and it amazed at how thick and meaty they are. Not fragile by any stretch.

Not sure how I'll approach the bus wiring... I've been putting it off but it's staring me in the face every time I look at it, and very much hampering my "room to move"... sigh.
 
looks cool man... the studiomaster i own has the busbar wiring like that and yes it's a serious pita... but if you're gonna overhaul the thing go ahead and lift them all or replace them all together... the two sets of 3 controlls... that isnt two bands of full parametric eq is it.... salivating commences...
 
looks cool man... the studiomaster i own has the busbar wiring like that and yes it's a serious pita... but if you're gonna overhaul the thing go ahead and lift them all or replace them all together... the two sets of 3 controlls... that isnt two bands of full parametric eq is it.... salivating commences...
Alas no. It's just gain, high mid low eq, then 2 aux sends and echo, pan, pfl, fader. Well, it is now heh.
 
Yeah I was very pleasantly surprised with the "bigness" of everything, it's built to last... Heck I accidentally lifted a trace the other day and it amazed at how thick and meaty they are. Not fragile by any stretch.

Not sure how I'll approach the bus wiring... I've been putting it off but it's staring me in the face every time I look at it, and very much hampering my "room to move"... sigh.

On the bus wiring, I count 10 wires at the top, four at the bottom. For the bottom, get yourself a couple of these:

http://store.cwc-group.com/4cofanpoexca.html


Cut them in half. Instant cheap 4-pin connector and cables that don't take up much space. Or just buy the molex connectors and make them yourself. I had a hard time finding the bare connectors in 4-pin, but you could always use two 3-pin connectors. For example:

http://www.svc.com/3pm-uvr.html
http://www.svc.com/uv3pinredfemale.html

Or just buy premade 3-pin cables:

http://www.pcstockpile.com/product_info.php?products_id=1081

You could also use several of these for the 10-pin connectors. That would be about $4 per board.
 
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