Choosing a Distributor

S

sjdean

New member
So it is my ambition to get a couple of songs on the internet. I found TuneCore and was suitably impressed.

Then I found all the other facilities and gadgets and gizmos and other providers out there and Im left wondering, well, what is best for me? Its less about base cost as it is more about who will give me best value and look after me.

Im in a bit of a quagmire trying to learn the difference about distribution vs publication, UPC codes ISRC codes, labels, BMI, ASCAP, PRS, PRO, PPL. Mind boggles.

I guess there's TuneCore which submits your tracks to online places and you get revenue. I don't quite know what a Publishing deal is, but gather it's something to do with YouTube, which, without that, you couldn't collect revenue? They like CD Baby seem to use SoundScan off the back of ISRC codes to generate data??? The $75 deal is a one off cost but they register with the appropriate PRO organisation, but seems to only include BMI and ASCAP etc. But they can then collect your revenue.

Then there's CD Baby where you have to be US anyhow to take advantage of the PRO option and UPC codes cost $5 anyhow.

Then there's Ditto, which seems to list fewer stores as standard compared to TuneCore despite claiming more. Ditto also gives the ability to create a label (why is this a good thing?), mentions nothing about SoundScan or collecting money from YouTube as standard. But it does talk about registering for UK charts at a cost. It mentions nothing about publishing like TuneCore does, nothing about PPL, PRS, PRO, BMI, ASCAP or whoever. YouTube monetization appears to be a separate thing, so what exactly happens to streaming? Im lost.

CD Baby seems to have YouTube Monetization inclluded as standard through, TuneCore sounds like the add on at the one off $75 plus commission. I have no idea about Ditto except it looks like you pay per release. TuneCore and CD Baby have publishing options. Ditto don't seem like they do.

Im totally lost.

Simon
 
Can't you put stuff up on YouTube yourself and just click the option to show ads and get revenue. You need something like 10000000000000000000000 plays for $1 earned.
 
"So it is my ambition to get a couple of songs on the internet."

Like you've seen there are a ton of options. Lots of free ones, some cheap ones, and some expensive ones. DO you think you can actually make REAL money with your songs, or do you just want to have them avaialble for people to listen to?
Free sites: Bandcamp, reverbnation, soundcloud ....
Cheap ones: Kunaki, Createspace/Amazon ...
 
Well I guess my ambition keeps growing. First it was "I want to play bass", then "I want to play bass in a band". Then "I want to write some of my own songs" and "I want to record my own songs".

There's obviously SoundCloud for putting songs online, but then it turned into, I want to do this properly and make it sound good. And, hrm, these aren't too bad, I'd like to "release" them. Now Im at the stage thinking, sure, I could put them onto iTunes and get friends and family to buy them :-) but, well, could I make a bigger go of this....

So yeah, it would be nice to "get on iTunes" but at the same time, heck, if there's any possibility for making any money whatsoever, even a spare £20 a month and making it as proessional as possible, I want to do it for minimal cost and make sure everything's covered. I do wonder if I can get enough word of mouth to get a comedy song into the Top 40 for a bit of fun.

But I think there is a serious side which says, this isn't just a bit of fun anymore, Im really getting into this and want to try to do it properly rather than just being a hobby outside of my day job. I wouldn't mind if this was my day job.

I still got a lot to learn about music, writing, mastering etc, but well, I think I owe it to myself that if I want to release it, I need to do it the right way.

So yes to iTunes, yes to Amazon yes to Google Play so I can show my friends and family. If I make any money on it, it's a bonus, Im not bothered about radio or anything like that, but if by some miracle I became some kind of cult sensation, I want to make sure everything is properly covered.

I'd like to register one song for the charts just for fun.
 
Here are my sales records from CDBaby. The total is at the bottom. These are for 1 song.

REPORT SALES PARTNER ARTIST ALBUM SONG COVER TYPE QTY. UNIT PAYABLE
Aug 18, 2014 May 2014 Deezer Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00414619 $0.00414619
Aug 16, 2014 Jun 2014 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00099181 $0.00099181
Jul 09, 2014 Apr 2014 Google Music Store Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.01163392 $0.01163392
Jul 06, 2014 Apr 2014 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Jul 05, 2014 May 2014 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00858953 $0.00858953
Jul 03, 2014 Apr 2014 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00069778 $0.00069778
Jul 03, 2014 Apr 2014 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00626360 $0.00626360
Jun 19, 2014 Mar 2014 Deezer Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00132513 $0.00132513
Jun 13, 2014 Apr 2014 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00869225 $0.00869225
Mar 13, 2014 Jan 2014 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 4.0 $0.00860446 $0.03441785
Mar 08, 2014 Dec 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00653324 $0.00653324
Feb 26, 2014 Jan 2014 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Feb 01, 2014 Nov 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00090203 $0.00090203
Jan 05, 2014 Oct 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00085864 $0.00085864
Jan 05, 2014 Oct 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00625547 $0.00625547
Jan 05, 2014 Oct 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 2.0 $0.00100031 $0.00200061
Dec 21, 2013 Sep 2013 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Nov 15, 2013 Aug 2013 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Oct 03, 2013 Jul 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00116972 $0.00116972
Sep 16, 2013 Jul 2013 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00776399 $0.00776399
Sep 07, 2013 Jun 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00687270 $0.00687270
Aug 23, 2013 Jun 2013 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Aug 13, 2013 Jun 2013 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00758774 $0.00758774
Aug 05, 2013 May 2013 Google Music Store Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00000000 $0.00000000
Jul 18, 2013 May 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00095882 $0.00095882
Jul 12, 2013 May 2013 Xbox Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00498680 $0.00498680
Jul 05, 2013 Apr 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00104738 $0.00104738
May 13, 2013 Mar 2013 Amazon MP3 Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Apr 04, 2013 Jan 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00618482 $0.00618482
Mar 28, 2013 Feb 2013 iTunes Match - Americas Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00311958 $0.00311958
Mar 20, 2013 Jan 2013 Xbox Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.03861856 $0.03861856
Feb 05, 2013 Nov 2012 Spotify Jokerone No stream 2.0 $0.00108136 $0.00216272
Jan 03, 2013 Nov 2012 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Dec 22, 2012 Sep 2012 MySpace Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00206308 $0.00206308
Dec 17, 2012 Sep 2012 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00124364 $0.00124364
Oct 26, 2012 Jul 2012 Deezer Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.01878085 $0.01878085
Oct 19, 2012 Jul 2012 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Oct 13, 2012 Jul 2012 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00687441 $0.00687441
Jul 25, 2012 Jun 2012 iTunes Match - Americas Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00342434 $0.00342434
Jun 30, 2012 May 2012 iTunes Match - Americas Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00333811 $0.00333811
May 31, 2012 Apr 2012 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Apr 25, 2012 Mar 2012 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000

PAGE TOTAL: 47.0 $3.44000532
 
jokerone said:
Here are my sales records from CDBaby. The total is at the bottom. These are for 1 song.

REPORT SALES PARTNER ARTIST ALBUM SONG COVER TYPE QTY. UNIT PAYABLE
Aug 18, 2014 May 2014 Deezer Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00414619 $0.00414619
Aug 16, 2014 Jun 2014 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00099181 $0.00099181
Jul 09, 2014 Apr 2014 Google Music Store Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.01163392 $0.01163392
Jul 06, 2014 Apr 2014 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Jul 05, 2014 May 2014 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00858953 $0.00858953
Jul 03, 2014 Apr 2014 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00069778 $0.00069778
Jul 03, 2014 Apr 2014 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00626360 $0.00626360
Jun 19, 2014 Mar 2014 Deezer Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00132513 $0.00132513
Jun 13, 2014 Apr 2014 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00869225 $0.00869225
Mar 13, 2014 Jan 2014 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 4.0 $0.00860446 $0.03441785
Mar 08, 2014 Dec 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00653324 $0.00653324
Feb 26, 2014 Jan 2014 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Feb 01, 2014 Nov 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00090203 $0.00090203
Jan 05, 2014 Oct 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00085864 $0.00085864
Jan 05, 2014 Oct 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00625547 $0.00625547
Jan 05, 2014 Oct 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 2.0 $0.00100031 $0.00200061
Dec 21, 2013 Sep 2013 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Nov 15, 2013 Aug 2013 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Oct 03, 2013 Jul 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00116972 $0.00116972
Sep 16, 2013 Jul 2013 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00776399 $0.00776399
Sep 07, 2013 Jun 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00687270 $0.00687270
Aug 23, 2013 Jun 2013 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Aug 13, 2013 Jun 2013 Muve Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00758774 $0.00758774
Aug 05, 2013 May 2013 Google Music Store Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00000000 $0.00000000
Jul 18, 2013 May 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00095882 $0.00095882
Jul 12, 2013 May 2013 Xbox Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00498680 $0.00498680
Jul 05, 2013 Apr 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00104738 $0.00104738
May 13, 2013 Mar 2013 Amazon MP3 Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Apr 04, 2013 Jan 2013 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00618482 $0.00618482
Mar 28, 2013 Feb 2013 iTunes Match - Americas Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00311958 $0.00311958
Mar 20, 2013 Jan 2013 Xbox Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.03861856 $0.03861856
Feb 05, 2013 Nov 2012 Spotify Jokerone No stream 2.0 $0.00108136 $0.00216272
Jan 03, 2013 Nov 2012 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Dec 22, 2012 Sep 2012 MySpace Music Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00206308 $0.00206308
Dec 17, 2012 Sep 2012 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00124364 $0.00124364
Oct 26, 2012 Jul 2012 Deezer Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.01878085 $0.01878085
Oct 19, 2012 Jul 2012 Rhapsody Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00910000 $0.00910000
Oct 13, 2012 Jul 2012 Spotify Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00687441 $0.00687441
Jul 25, 2012 Jun 2012 iTunes Match - Americas Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00342434 $0.00342434
Jun 30, 2012 May 2012 iTunes Match - Americas Jokerone No stream 1.0 $0.00333811 $0.00333811
May 31, 2012 Apr 2012 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000
Apr 25, 2012 Mar 2012 Apple iTunes Jokerone No download 1.0 $0.63700000 $0.63700000

PAGE TOTAL: 47.0 $3.44000532
Click to expand...

You're doing well... can you lend me a dollar? :)

If you want the thrill of seeing yourself up on teh interwebz, then just use CDBaby or someone like that. A lot of the stuff they charge for (codes etc) you can do for nothing yourself with a bit of research...

It cost me just under $50 to get worldwide digital distribution for my album... granted it doesn't earn much but I get a kick out of showing it to people on iTunes, Amazon, wherever and trying to shame them into buying a tune... :)

I think a single song is somewhat less..
 
sjdean said:
Im in a bit of a quagmire trying to learn the difference about distribution vs publication, UPC codes ISRC codes, labels, BMI, ASCAP, PRS, PRO, PPL. Mind boggles.

Im totally lost.

Simon
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a lot to get lost in.


distribution vs publication - this isn't a "vs" thing. It's not one or the other. The two are completely different.

Distribution - Moving your songs to different vendors for sale. Whether it's brick n mortar stores or online download. Samll indie labels offer distribution through major labels, but that's about all they offer. You have to produce the product and garner the listeners. Major labels will do a whole lot more on top of distribution, they'll promote your music. That's the hardest part of making music. Getting enough exposure to sell.

Publication - goes hand in hand with songwriting royalties. A publisher is a person who can get your tunes out to the record labels, other artists, tv, video, games, etc. When you write a song, you are automatically entitled to receive the royalties when the song is sold or performed. There are also publishing rights, which are royalties for getting your song signed to a label/artist/etc. You usually retain publishing rights, especially if you're DIYing your tunes, but you might sign them over to a label, a song plugger, or publisher whose job it is to get your tunes out into the market place. You might hear the expression 200% which means 100% songwriter's royalties and 100% publisher royalties. As a songwriter with a publishing deal, you will retain the songwriting royalties, but the publisher will get the publishing royalties. They are usually the same percentage.

UPC codes - the bar code for your CD. It has to be a unique number. You can get them for free from some places (Kunaki.com) or pay a small fee at other places (CDBaby) I read that if you remaster your CD or change it in anyway, you should assign a new UPC code for it.

ISRC codes - Individual codes for each song. You can apply to get the codes yourself or you can get them from CDBaby or duplication services. Not really necessary, but I believe they are always free. They are encoded onto the CD's, maybe the MP3's by using mastering software like wavelab or soundforge. The PRO's can use them for tracking performances, sales, etc.

ASCAP, BMI are PROs = Performing Rights Organization. They collect your royalties for you. BMI and ASCAP are the two big ones in the US. They are usually free to join though ASCAP might have more stringent requirements. Both use the latest technology to track song usage over the internet or radio. You can join only one PRO to register your songs. I got a royalty check from BMI once. I thought that was the coolest thing.

As Armistice suggested, use CDBaby. They charge a fee, but they take care of EVERYTHING. Your tunes will be in more places than you ever knew existed. The want you to send 4 CD's knowing they will sit on a shelf in a warehouse in Oregon. They'll copy one CD and put it out for distribution. They will collect the revenue for you and take their fair share. (It is fair!!)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on something here.,....
 
Armistice said:
You're doing well... can you lend me a dollar? :)
granted it doesn't earn much but I get a kick out of showing it to people on iTunes, Amazon, wherever and trying to shame them into buying a tune... :)
Click to expand...

That's the angle Im going for...

Greg_L said:
Ah, the hopeful and naive.
Click to expand...

Hopeful maybe. But not naive. I don't expect to make anything.

Chili said:
Y
ISRC codes - Individual codes for each song. You can apply to get the codes yourself or you can get them from CDBaby or duplication services. Not really necessary, but I believe they are always free. They are encoded onto the CD's, maybe the MP3's by using mastering software like wavelab or soundforge. The PRO's can use them for tracking performances, sales, etc.

ASCAP, BMI are PROs = Performing Rights Organization. They collect your royalties for you. BMI and ASCAP are the two big ones in the US. They are usually free to join though ASCAP might have more stringent requirements. Both use the latest technology to track song usage over the internet or radio. You can join only one PRO to register your songs. I got a royalty check from BMI once. I thought that was the coolest thing.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the breakdown Chili.

With regards to PRO's, I think there's the $75 for a one off registration with TuneCore and includes YouTube monitoring, $xx per song using CD Baby PRO (but that's US only) then there's Ditto which I can't figure them out. TuneCore and CD Baby Pro seem to include a certain amount of monitoring to ensure you get revenue. How that works with Ditto and PPL I have no idea. Im not sure how the process even works.

Ditto don't seem to indicate PPL registration. There's YouTube Monetization, but no PPL registration. But I gather I can do that myself. There is UK Chart Registration then a £15 on top PPL registration. Why would I not want PPL on each song I do

Thanks
Simon
 
"revenue" is the key word. You only get that when people actually stream/download your songs. That's only oging to happen with promotion. Who does that? You or someone you hire to do it.
I don't know how many players/bands I've heard say during a live performance "you can download that song/our album on iTunes" but how many people actually bother to do that after seeing the performance?
You can use bandcamp (free) to provide a place for friends/family to download - you can even offer free downloads, and set your own prices. Good way to build a fanbase and figure out if its worth going to the next step (CDBaby, for example).
You can use Kunaki (basically free - just pay for CD copies you want) to sell physical CDs - people can even order your CD direct from them so you don't have to inventory more than you think you can sell at your shows - and again, set your own selling price.
 
Armistice said:
You're doing well... can you lend me a dollar? :).
Click to expand...

Sure, I'm bound to make more from your interest payments on $1 than I'm making from CD Baby. :D

By the way, I have yet to have them actually send me any money. I believe you have to wait until you hit $10. At this rate my great grand children will get a check for $10 split amongst themselves, before inflation, etc.

---------- Update ----------

Greg_L said:
Ah, the hopeful and naive.
Click to expand...

Keep Hope Alive! :laughings:
 
jokerone said:
By the way, I have yet to have them actually send me any money. I believe you have to wait until you hit $10. At this rate my great grand children will get a check for $10 split amongst themselves, before inflation, etc.
Click to expand...

I got two checks from them in like 5 years. Both were for $20!!! :eek:
 
I used to get royalty checks for some software I wrote in the late 80s. Lucrative at first (about $1500 a month), then dwindling down to 2 or three checks per year and then one and I haven't seen one in two years. But if it ever builds up to $250 again, I'll get another check!!! :D Made almost $130,000 over 30 years from writing some code that automated telemarketing...:facepalm: Yeah, I wrote some scumbag software, but it helped pay the bills. Don't even have the original code anymore (written in Fortran and compiled on an 8086). Some of the code is still in use by telemarketing software...thus the continuing checks.

Anyway, I've never even tried to put music out for cash income, so this is informative if semi-useless to me...
 
Chili said:
I got two checks from them in like 5 years. Both were for $20!!! :eek:
Click to expand...

Well, its nice to know somebody here is living the life of a rock and roll superstar.. ;)

There was an old TV ad Pre-Sopranos, etc. For HBO.

There was a guy at a party, and people were asking him if he was a film Director, and then if he made films for HBO. Each time he said no, and they lost interest in him immediately and then walked away.
Finally some gorgeous babe asked him if he made films for HBO, and his answer was "Yes, Yes I do.".. ;)

I think this is the allure of CDbaby. You can point to iTunes, and Amazon, etc. and say, "Look, my music is being sold there.". The next question is "How much have you sold." , and your answer should always be. "That's a lovely dress. Is it French?"... :D
 
Forget income from online pursuits. Unless you're already making a massive dent in a music career there won't be streams or sales to speak of, as the guys here have demonstrated.

What might be worth consideration, though, is the rate of pay per play on your local radio stations and how hard/easy it is to get played or, even better, on their playlist.

Your performing rights organisation should have a publication of all the stations which pay per play, rather than by monthly sample or whatever, and what rate each has.
In short, some stations are worth being played on and some aren't but if you're interested in making a little pocket money on the side I'd investigate that.

EDIT: I realise this ^ doesn't answer the question. I just thought it was relevant.
 
jokerone said:
I think this is the allure of CDbaby. You can point to iTunes, and Amazon, etc. and say, "Look, my music is being sold there.". The next question is "How much have you sold." , and your answer should always be. "That's a lovely dress. Is it French?"... :D
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's just to say I did it. And I don't mind telling people I've made less than $100 from my music. It keeps it in perspective. :)
 
Steenamaroo said:
Forget income from online pursuits. Unless you're already making a massive dent in a music career there won't be streams or sales to speak of, as the guys here have demonstrated.

What might be worth consideration, though, is the rate of pay per play on your local radio stations and how hard/easy it is to get played or, even better, on their playlist.

Your performing rights organisation should have a publication of all the stations which pay per play, rather than by monthly sample or whatever, and what rate each has.
In short, some stations are worth being played on and some aren't but if you're interested in making a little pocket money on the side I'd investigate that.

EDIT: I realise this ^ doesn't answer the question. I just thought it was relevant.
Click to expand...

Also, I believe the genre has something to do with it as well. I'm a classic rock guy who has moved into Reggae/Dub. Not exactly a main stream genre.
The big players in the genre besides the Marleys are small trendy groups that pop up from Hawaii, the Caribbean or California. They seem to play large concerts (10K +)
but their record sales are like 10K per year.

One problem is (I'm quoting Kenny Aronoff when I saw him at Sweetwater in June), is that you have one or two generations who believe music is and should be FREE.
In other words pirating music, software, etc. is as legit as buying it. His conclusion was as any realist would be. It is what is, and try to navigate as best you can in this climate.

For me (in my case)
As the technology gets cheaper and better the level of talent needed to produce music goes down. Its almost an inverse graph. 25 years ago I would never be able to make / compose a song. Which I'm sure means millions of no talent types like myself are able to do the same. :p

If I could actually bring myself to enjoy the crap my 16 year old daughter listens to I could triple my income and actually break that $20 CDbaby check threshold during my lifetime.. :laughings:
 
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