cheapest way to record drums

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Singtall

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i have a small shed that i turned into a studio and i want to record my drum kit. i am looking for the cheapest way to get it done decently. i tried triggers but was quickly frustrated with triggers falling off, false triggering, no triggering and don't get me started on triggering cymbals. so that's out of the question. i may play with kick or snare triggering, but never cymbals.

i have a presonus firepod, and i was thinking about getting some CAD Pro series drum mics.....and yeah, i know that you get what you pay for, but i actually heard a recording done by a professional that made those mics sound great, so it is possible (although it could be a lot of work). my kit is really big and would require at least 10 mics to mic it the way i want to (direct plus stereo overheads). i could get another firepod and simply record all drums into the pc, then spend time on each channel with eq, compression and etc to make them sound good. the problem will be monitoring that mess. if i add a couple other musicians to record at the same time, i don't know that i could make a headphone mix from the raw mics to be worth listening to.

the other option might be to get a digital mixer like the presonus studiolive 16.0.2 or 16.4.2 and that way i could record multitrack with eq/compression/gate direct to pc if i wanted to, plus generate a decent headphone mix(s).

budget for the first option would be somewhere around $300-400 for the mics, maybe $150 for a used firepod.

second option might be $800-1000 for a used mixer, plus $300-400 for the mics.

i have a bunch of expenses (4 kids) coming up, so i hate to dump a lot of money into something that won't be making money (just a hobby). any ideas would be welcome, especially if some one could tell me how to make a decent headphone mix with the first option. if there are more options, please chime in. thanks guys.
 
Cheap? Sound good as well? That is a tough pill to swallow and not vomit...

Most important for you to acknowledge, is that you cannot expect to eq/compress/manipulate drums to sound good. It needs to sound good before even hitting a microphone. This involves a room that the kit sounds good in to begin with.

This is quickly going to turn into something you may not want to hear, but it will all be true.

What type of music are you looking at recording? This will have much to do with what I would recommend.

No matter what triggers or samples you use to enhance your drum sound, it will all fall short unless you have a room and quality overhead mics to actually capture the kit well.

Trust me, I have been in your position. I will offer the best advice I can within your budget and not BS you into spending a bunch of cash. There are things you should focus on first in order to save your money for the new members of your family.
 
Option 3: Give the money back to your wife. She needs it for diapers and bills. Don't try to start a studio and a family at the same time. Let your guitar players spend THEIR money on recording. (Hey, you did ask for more options. Just saying.) :D
 
Here's what I do. I think it sounds pretty darn good and us about as cheap as your gonna get. I use 4 mics. Two of them are 57s that I've had for years, and the other two are MXL pencil type condenser mics that we're on sale last month a Guitar Center (99 bucks for the pair). I have Tascam interface that let's me record four sources at once. I put one of the MXLs about 3 feet above the snare, and 1 ft to the drummers left (ie. toward the hi hats). Point the mic straight at the center of the snare. The other is kind of over the drummers right shoulder. Use a guitar chord as a measuring stick, move this one around until the distance from the center of the snare is the same for both mics, and the distance from the center of the kick drum is the same fir both mics. This is important so spend the few minutes it takes to get it right. You want to be within an inch or two of the same distance for both mics. First 57 goes up under the hi-hat as high as possible, pointed toward the center of the snare. Angle it down as much as possible and still clear the rim of the snare by an inch to an inch and a half. The idea is to get the hats into the attenuated zone of the mic as much as possible. You want snare in the mic, not hi-hat. Fourth mic goes in/on the kick drum. Lots of variations here depending on what sound you want. I usually put the mic a little off center inside the drum about 4-5 inches away from and pointing at the spot where the beater strikes the head.

Set levels and record. Pan the overheads left and right and kick and snare deaf center. Gives a "good" drum sound. You'll want to ask the player to lay of the cymbal strikes just a teeny but, and hit the toms a little harder than normal, as you won't have any mixing control over cymbals versus toms anytime they're ringing at the same time. In my experience this isn't really a problem though. From where they're placed, the overhead mics pick up pretty much what the drummer is hearing, so the balance tends to be good. (You can read more about this technique by searching Recorderman variation of Glyn John's) technique. Lots of super-classic drum tracks were recorded this way. Beatles, Who, Led Zepellin, and more.

I add one extra step that may or may not be worth the effort. After your tracks are laid zoom way, way in on a snare hit. You'll notice it occurs in the snare track just a teeny bit sooner than in the overheads. If you've done the distances thing right it will be hitting both overheads at exactly the same time. Slide the entire snare track that few msec to align it with the overheads. Now zoom in on a kick and do the same thing, moving the kick track to aligb with the kick picked by the overheads. Don't worry about the time shift between the snare picked up by the kick mic and kick picked by snare mic. (Because a.) there's really nothing you can do about it, and b.) the relative levels of the bleed signals there compared with the main signal will be do far apart as not matter.)

That's it. Good luck!
 
the kids are all teenagers, so no diapers to worry about. i'm about 3 years from semi retiring, so i'm trying to get my home studio together to give me something to do.

my drum kit sounds great. the room has open cell expansion foam on all walls and ceiling, so it's fairly dead....not completely, but enough to sound good.

i'm doing mostly rock music, so i favor every drum close mic'd with stereo overheads. that means 10 mics for this kit.

back in the mid 90's i recorded an entire drum kit direct mic'd, into an analog mixer, out in stereo to a tape 8 track. the recording still sounds good today, so i know it can be done. the question is how cheap can i do it today? i would rather not commit to 2 tracks like i did then. i want better control of the mix, so 10 tracks is fine by me. the recordings i do will not be comparable to anything on a national big league level, but that's fine by me too.

i'm still checking into the monitoring possibilities of the firepod. maybe i can come out of the firepod into a little mixer to feed the headphones? i have a small mixer that i could put to use for that.

if i had the cash to spend, i could be happy with a presonus 16.4.2 mixer with a set of Audix drum mics. i have done really good recordings at a couple churches using that setup. i would have to wait awhile before i could bite off that much cash though.
 
I would say to start off with a Tascam US1800. On sale now at GC for $222.00. It will give you ability to record 10 mics right out of the box. 9 and 10 would need to have XLR to 1/4" adapters or cables. You can add external preamps to get to 16 total separate inputs to DAW. Then use what you have for mics and upgrade as you determine the need to.

Everything on my website was recorded with the 1800 or it's predecessor the 1641. You can hear from there what is possible with the interface. Mind you that my drum room is well treated and I use Steven Slate Trigger for enhancement. Even the overhead mic's on these recordings were cheapo Samson CO2's. mostly Shure SM57's on everything else.

I have upgraded quite a bit since these recordings with better overhead mics and interfaces, but the 1800 did me well for quite a while. I highly recommend it for getting your studio going on the cheap.
 
how do you go about monitoring the signal and giving the drummer and other musicians a headphone mix? i know i can give them a mix on the playback that will sound good, but what about during the recording?
 
i haven't hooked up the presonus firepod that i just bought, but looking over the manual it looks like it has eight outputs that i can bring into a cheapo mixer to blend and send to headphones. i might just get another firepod used and daisy chain them for 16 inputs at once. from there i can bring the 1/4" direct outs into a small mixer to make headphone mixes.

the downside is that the drummer will hear the raw sound of his drums instead of a slick eq'd version while tracking. but it is a cheap way to record. going this way, i can sink more money into mics instead of a mixer.
 
Singtall said:
how do you go about monitoring the signal and giving the drummer and other musicians a headphone mix? i know i can give them a mix on the playback that will sound good, but what about during the recording?
Click to expand...

Well, that kind of comes down to computer power for me. I can run a full mix of 40+tracks with tons of VST effects and still record a vocal track with latency under 6ms monitoring directly from Cubase.

With the 1800, I was only able to have two separate mixes for players using the second pair of outputs as an AUX in to my headphone distribution amp. Still, I have only once even had the request from a band member in the projects I have recorded-the way I record them. I just do not really have the need to send multiple mixes to headphones.

Here is my scenario. I have at this point a 35 x 13' treated control room, a 25 x 13' treated drum room, and a small badly treated 8 x 10' isolation room. When I record a band I focus only on the drums and scratch tracks for the others. The amps go in the little room, the drums in their room, bass direct, and the rest of the band plays in the control room. I have a quite powerful PA system I acquired from a closed bar with 18" woofers that I can crank up during tracking of drums. Also video camera so that the musicians can see the drummer while he/they track. It has a more natural feel to me, and it seems more comfortable like a rehearsal for the band. No need for anyone to have headphones on other than the drummer while tracking.

The same happens for most instrument recording. Amps go in the drum room and the player is in the control room. Only time headphones are needed in my setup are for vocal tracking, and obviously the drummer. There are times where direct reaction for feedback is required from the amp and guitar player being in the same room, but this only involves one headphone mix.

And, by the way, if an interface has separate outputs from DAW, you can merely send those to separate headphone amps to get different mixes if needed. In Cubase (which I use), you can send multiple mixes to different outputs from within the DAW. No need for a mixer. You just have to have something external to send the line level outputs to, to amplify to headphones.

If you use a mixer, you are limited to the outputs of that unit anyway. One mixer will likely only have one headphone output. Maybe a bigger one with subgroups, but you still will need to send each to another unit that will provide an additional headphone output.


This is typical for many to feel that they need a mixer to do these things. For some, it is a necessity. In my case, it has no place in the way I do things.


Hope any of this makes any sense... :)
 
thanks for the info.

i'm recording everything in a 12x32' shed the has open cell phone sprayed on all walls and ceilings. the only thing i wanted to do with headphones is have a mix for drums, bass, and guitar for tracking.....even though i'm only recording drums for the most part and everything else will be overdubbed. we like to jam and when the inspiration strikes we roll tape....err, press record. i'm just trying to make it easy for us to jam and not get too into the tech side when we record. i find that writing music while operating the recording gear doesn't mix well. two different sides of the brain i guess.

i was looking into some "budget" mics like CAD and Audio Technica and i'm thinking about buying a set of the Audio Technicas based on reviews from a few drummers. any thoughts on cheap drum mics?
 
BroKen_H said:
Awesome stuff, Mr. Jim!
Click to expand...

I like old school with new gear! :)

I always felt uncomfortable in studio situations in the past. Sterile really. It was 'do it now exactly like you do', but in an environment that was not my place. $75 an hour in a big studio in the 90's left a bad taste in my mouth. My goal is to make my cave as comfortable as possible and yet achieve great results. Funny how being able to light a candle, light up a bud or smoke if the client wishes, and crank up the PA to the volume of rehearsal or a gig, makes it easy for musicians to play in an environment that they are used to.

I find that the ability to be comfortable in a recording environment, leads to the most important factor; the performance...
 
Yeah, getting over the WOW factor in most major studios is the first step. Kinda intimidating when the listening room looks better than my living room. Some places charged a lot more than $75 an hour BTW. What you're doing should be attracting a LOT of bands. It's a great idea.
 
BroKen_H said:
Yeah, getting over the WOW factor in most major studios is the first step. Kinda intimidating when the listening room looks better than my living room. Some places charged a lot more than $75 an hour BTW. What you're doing should be attracting a LOT of bands. It's a great idea.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it seems to be working well. 3 bands in here this month. I don't get much free time anymore but I enjoy it. :)
 
Singtall said:
thanks for the info.

i'm recording everything in a 12x32' shed the has open cell phone sprayed on all walls and ceilings. the only thing i wanted to do with headphones is have a mix for drums, bass, and guitar for tracking.....even though i'm only recording drums for the most part and everything else will be overdubbed. we like to jam and when the inspiration strikes we roll tape....err, press record. i'm just trying to make it easy for us to jam and not get too into the tech side when we record. i find that writing music while operating the recording gear doesn't mix well. two different sides of the brain i guess.

i was looking into some "budget" mics like CAD and Audio Technica and i'm thinking about buying a set of the Audio Technicas based on reviews from a few drummers. any thoughts on cheap drum mics?
Click to expand...

You tend to get what you pay for. That being said, I would suggest trying the budget mics and get your feet wet. You will soon be able to make your own judgement on what works for 'you'.

I have gone through tons of gear that worked 'for now', then found something else that works better. I wouldn't know what was better without actually using the previous.
 
the church i worked for had a set of $800 audix drum mics, which sounded really good to me, very little eq needed to get a good tone.

the kids church had the CAD pro touring mics, which i never listened to.

one day the pastor decided he wanted to mic the drum kit for the upcoming cd instead of using the nice big expensive electronic kit that we had. i told him that most of the good mics had been lost or stolen. so he had me throw together what we had left. we ended up using half audix, half CAD mics. he liked the sound so much that he went with that setup and recorded a major release cd. he had it mastered at a big facility and it sounded fine.

i've used a lot of mics in my day, and all i really care about is "can i get the sound that i want" out of these mics? i was able to coax some decent sound out of the CAD mics, but i hated the clamps that they came with. the Audio Technica mics appear to have a better mic clip than the CAD's, which is why i'm thinking about them.

if money was no problem, i would have earthworks mics for sure.
 
there is a presonus studiolive 16.4.2 for sale locally for $900. i might pull the trigger on it. it would solve a lot of my problems for sure.

i watched a bunch of audio technica drum mic videos and they seem to have some decent products. i will wait and see if i get that mixer before buying the mics though.
 
If you're wanting a monitor mix that really sounds good, with no latency, you'll need splitters on each mic (wye cables) and a monitor mixer and headphone splitter amp. Otherwise you can use the very basic hardware monitoring that most interfaces have, must mixes the inputs (at recording level) together with your queue material from the computer. Usually you can control the mix between the queue material and the sum of the inputs in the monitor signal, but not the level of the inputs relative to one another. Works pretty well, unless you want something other than your recording level in your monitor mix. If you split off the each input with wye to an outboard mixer and run the queue material from the headphone out of the interface to the computer you can make a true monitor mix, but it's more hardware. You can also do it in the DAW and send a mixed signal back in the queue, but there will be latency. How much will depend on the computer and its audio hardware and drivers.

J
 
jjjtttggg said:
If you're wanting a monitor mix that really sounds good, with no latency, you'll need splitters on each mic (wye cables) and a monitor mixer and headphone splitter amp. Otherwise you can use the very basic hardware monitoring that most interfaces have, must mixes the inputs (at recording level) together with your queue material from the computer. Usually you can control the mix between the queue material and the sum of the inputs in the monitor signal, but not the level of the inputs relative to one another. Works pretty well, unless you want something other than your recording level in your monitor mix. If you split off the each input with wye to an outboard mixer and run the queue material from the headphone out of the interface to the computer you can make a true monitor mix, but it's more hardware. You can also do it in the DAW and send a mixed signal back in the queue, but there will be latency. How much will depend on the computer and its audio hardware and drivers.

J
Click to expand...

He's looking for cheap. He just spent a chunk of cash on what is a live sound mixer that you can record with. He can monitor direct from the mixer without adding more gear and jumping through hoops.
 
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