Charging for recordings

[bmcclure]

First, as in some of my other posts, I'll let you know the gear I've got:

I use Cool Edit, Cakewalk, and CUbase to record to.

DRUMS/SOUND EFFECTS:
Roland MC-505 Groovebox

MIXER:
Behringer 1604 12-track

COMPRESSOR:
Behringer stereo compressor/limiter

MICS:
XML condensor mic
SM57 Instrument Mic
Shure dynamic mic

PREAMP:
PreSonus TubePRE

GUITARS:
Ibanez RG320fm lavender
Peavey Predator

AMPS:
Cheap fender for certain recordings
Behringer V-AMP Pro Amp Modeler

I've got a few bells and whistles, various percussion insstruments, a pop filter, a GI box by behringer....


Anyway, I created some hip hop/rap beats on my MC-505 a while back. I'm no tinto hip hop anymore, so I'm not using them. A sort-of-friend-of-mine Wes saw my equipment and liked what he saw, wanted to record in my "studio" as he called it ;-)

I showed him my beats, he liked two of them a lot. He's been over twice now and has one song just about done, and another 1/2 way there.

I was thinking charging by the hour is not the best idea, since some things are out of his control. We've had to do some recordings over again because of background noise (dogs barking, phone calls, knocks on door, whatever) and I've had to do a couple of takes on the beats and stuff. But he's willing to pay me to do this for him, and it sounds VERY professional. The sound quality is excellent. What shoudl I be charging him, in yoru opinion, for the recordings, and for the beats I made? Thanks again! THis forum is the best...

 

[bmcclure]

By bells and whistled I meant extras, not actually bells and whistles ;-) I just read that back and laughed...

 

[Lanstar0]

Considering your equipment you probably can't pull off charging more than a $100/song. Especially that $100 could get you at least a couple hours in a nicer studio.

 

[bmcclure]

Another question, since you mention my equipment...

Where would you recommend I go next as far as equipment? I'm recording this rap and stuff just to make a little somethign on the side and learn about recording other people's music, but my main reason for my studio is to record my own music. It's reall yunclassified, but has an industrial/nu-metal feel to it, along with some rock solos and some other cool stuff ... Anyways, based on that, what kind of equipment would you recommend to help me record better? I was thinking a higher quality mic would be good, but my condensor going through my TubePRE sounds excellent, I can't justify buying a better setup for that right now. My V-AMP and Ibanez (down-tuned to B of course) sounds incredibly kick-ass as well. I could probably use a better compressor, but I don't use much compression so it doesn't make that much sense...

I was considering one of those nice ROland recording workstations ... the 18 track with a 15" LCD and a mouse would make a great combo I think. What do you think? Thanks!

 

[HangDawg]

Not that this means anything but tonight I just finished tracking a demo for a local band. All together I have about 20 hrs tracking time and probably another 15 hrs of editing and mixing. I did it for free. It is sort of payment for them opening for my band a couple of times. Thing is, it's advertisement for me cause these guys play all over, meet lots of other bands and host open mic nights.

I guess what I'm sayin is, don't be so quick to make a buck. Have fun and learn something in the process. This is the 3rd demo I've done for nothing and I'm just getting to the point where I think I may be able to charge a few bucks.

 

[distortedrumble]

yeah thats about how i do it....premanufactured beats(the ones i come up with at 2 in the morning) are 50, beat layout is 25. comes up to 75 for the music. then i tell them that since i did the beat here and they've already gotten their idea across, then how about come in and do the vocals and finish it all here. vocals come to another 25 or 35 if i think the person will pay for it.

 

[distortedrumble]

the one thing i fear though is a good singer/songwriter/musician....if they have some good stuff...chances are i probably would charge them 50 bucks for everything and spend a week on the song.. i'm a sucker for the good stuff.

 

[chessrock]

If you're doing this for nothing, then I'm sorry, but I think you're kind of a chump. With a capital "C."

If you are alive and have a pulse, you're at least worth minimum wage . . . unless your personal sense of self worth places you below an illegal alien or child labor in a third world country.

In which case, you might think of taking up something more profitable -- like panhandling, perhaps? Hey, if the guy on the street corner or the local crack whore are pulling in a heftier income than you . . . it might be a sign that you could stand to raise your rates.

 

[HangDawg]

If you're doing this for nothing, then I'm sorry, but I think you're kind of a chump. With a capital "C."

If you are alive and have a pulse, you're at least worth minimum wage . . . unless your personal sense of self worth places you below an illegal alien or child labor in a third world country.

In which case, you might think of taking up something more profitable -- like panhandling, perhaps? Hey, if the guy on the street corner or the local crack whore are pulling in a heftier income than you . . . it might be a sign that you could stand to raise your rates.

Well, you apparently have a different outlook than some others round here. I've seen these threads before and I seem to recall lots of folks stating that, if your engineering skills and gear are lacking, you shouldn't be ripping people off charging them for a service that you can't provide. Not saying this guys skills are lacking as I haven't heard anything he has recorded. It just seems to me that if he is asking what he should charge, the answer might be $0.00

 

[chessrock]

Well, I've run in to guys at Burger King who couldn't get my order right . . . couldn't keep a clean bathroom, etc.

But God love 'em, I'm assuming they're still picking up a paycheck.

If you're letting these guys play and/or record in your space, at the very least you should charge them something for the use of your space. You realize there are rehearsal spaces that charge by the month and by the hour.

Charge something. I'm not saying you should be billing 80 bucks an hour. Not even $20 if you can't give 'em a decent product. But at least charge minimum wage. What is that? $6 an hour? If the band can't come up with that amongs what is usually 4-5 members, then tell them BK might be hiring.

 

[bmcclure]

Very insightful Chessrock.

Personally, my skills, just like every other engineer's in the world, could use tweaking and can always get better, but I have 'the ear' and the equipment I have produces great recordings with minimal noise and a great sound.

$100 sounds fair for a song, it's not my equipment that's making the recording take a while, it's him slurring words or otherwise botching the song vocal-wise and having to start over. This is normal for studio work, but it just takes my time and equipment to do so. My studio is in no way hindering his recording, the quality is awesome, once it's mastered it will sound like something off of an album.

I can't post his stuff on here, and I'm not a big fan of the genre anyway, but if you guys want, I'll be glad to post my first song for you guys tomorrow when I finish mixing it down.

THat's where I need some help. I asked this before but am still not clear. When I mix it down the lows are too low and the highs are too high. So I run the 'comprander' feature in Adobe Audition to even out the highs and lows somewhat. Then I boost it a few dBs keeping it below the clipping level but as close as I can come to it. Then if it sounds good I burn it to a disc and test it. But it's still so quiet. How can I increase the volume of the recording without increasing the dBs over the clipping point?

Either way, I'll post what I have tomorrow here and maybe you guys can give me some constructive criticism ... it's my first so I need other ears to tell me what I've done wrong. Since I'm doign everything but physically playing the guitar (I do vocals, effects, synths, drums, and I wrote the guitar and bass parts and had a friend play them) not too many others get to hear my stuff until it's done.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[chessrock]

Maybe you should be charging $20 a song.

 

[spankenstein]

Definitely charge. I've done two "free" projects: a life-long best friend that I play with sometimes and a band that has brought me two other paying clients based on their demo.

I quote a whole project. Usually it equates to aruond $100/day of tracking and I do the mix on my own time. Everyone has been happy so far and one band just spent a lot of money on a "better" place and wish that they had come back to my house.

I'm definitely not awesome and I bill myself as "good demo quality" so I don't think I'm ripping anyone off. I'm not all... check out my super pro stuff (it's not) and I'll be super pro and make you sound pro!

Nope... just my PC my basement and my cheap mixer and mics. The results have been good to really good so far and no one has been unhappy with the end results.

Not charging kind of ruins it for everyone. As cheap as my stuff is it's still time and money and that's worth something. Favors I understand, "development stuff" I understand as well but just going around offering "free recording" spoils it for the people that like a little return on their investment. Like me... I'm cheap, but I want to get to the point where the equipment pays for itself. I'm looking to make it rich or anything but it's not free to me either.

 

[starch]

I can see both sides of the argument. I would say to chessrock, there must have been a time when you were starting out that you had to do work for nothing, or next to nothing. Maybe you were one of those guys who just said 'hey I record music' and people started knocking down your door to pay you a fair wage for recording. I know I, and it sounds like others here, have not had that experience. So doing work for free to get your name out and better your skills is not a bad thing.

On the other hand, as someone who does charge what I feel to be a fair price for my work (after a few years of doing the free stuff), I have noticed that many people don't have a pre-determined value of what we do. If you establish a realistic price and maybe educate people that you need $5/hour just to cover the cost of your equip, maintainance, upgrades, etc. and then about minimum wage at about $7/hour, you should not feel bad for charging (or them for paying) a minimum of $12/hour. If you want to generate enough money to actually pay some bills you may need to charge $20-$40/hour. What I am getting at is that you have to establish a price based on what you need to cover your expenses plus make a realistic profit. But the demand has got to be there to be successful at setting any value.

Enough of my ramblings, if you can set a realistic price for your work, and people will pay you for it, that's good business. If you are trying to generate more business by investing your time into advertising at the expense of not making the money up front, that's good business too. Do what you can to make yourself better, draw more business, and be smart enough to make a profit when you can, if for no other reason than to keep the sick cycle going.

Best of luck!

 

[TexRoadkill]

If you're doing this for nothing, then I'm sorry, but I think you're kind of a chump. With a capital "C."

Or an Artist

 

[starch]

Or an Artist

TexRoadkill is right. I spent a number of years doing this and learning before I ever charged a dime. Now I obviously had another job, but I loved doing it and never thougth twice about the money. I don't think I would consider myself a 'chump'

 

[chessrock]

When I first started out, I did a little free work . . . but I experimented with it a lot, also. I tracked and mixed the way I wanted. I took absolutely no direction from anyone. The band had no say in anything. They were my guinnea pigs.

It was beautiful and liberating, now that I look back on it. I would have appreciated it so much more back then, had I known what I know now. Too bad the recordings sounded horrible. I was free and they still got ripped off.

I did that for one band, but it's a little different, because they paid me back through session work. Yea, their guitarist and drummer later went on to play on two of my own projects, so it was really more of a barter deal.

 

[mbuster]

Then if it sounds good I burn it to a disc and test it. But it's still so quiet. How can I increase the volume of the recording without increasing the dBs over the clipping point?
.

Maybe you should charge THREE hundred a song.

 

[HangDawg]

Originally posted by Troy McClure


I've got a few bells and whistles, various percussion insstruments, a pop filter, a GI box by behringer....

Yep, $300/hr sounds more like it. There aren't many studios around that have them thar GI boxes. That's the camo GI box no doubt. You may remember it from such recording sessions as "Honey my bass track is to quiet" and "Saving private funk"

 

[distortedrumble]

LOL!!!! when i saw the name bmmclure i thought of Troy McClure (the simpsons) and Tane McClure(porn star) hey BMMclure...any relation to those two?