Equipment for demo recording

[Dan33185]

I know a local musician who performs covers, but has written some of her own songs she hasn't sang or recorded. I have offered to record these with her, and would like to know what all I would need to get the best results. It would be her vocals and guitar, so very minimal. I currently record her live concerts through her soundboard (Flamma FM10) with my Tascam DR-60D and get decent results, but obviously recording in a "studio" type setting is different. What I've been able to come up with on my own is this:

Flamma FM10 has a USB C output, and I would run that to my laptop and recording using Audacity (would any USB C cord work for this, or is a specific type needed for audio?)
I would also set 2 mics (Behringer C-2's) in front of her (one guitar, one vocal) and run those through the Tascam DR-60D
Combine the 2 in post and mess around with levels until I get the best results.

Does this sound like a reasonable setup? The results I would like to get are similar to Zach Bryan's first couple albums, which were recorded with just him and a laptop, but sound good enough for official release.

 

[jamesperrett]

Since the DR-60D is a 4 channel recorder, I would use that for the recording which saves all the hassle of matching things up afterwards. Just take the analogue outputs from the mixer to inputs 3 and 4 on the Tascam.

You can then load the files from the Tascam into a DAW. I would suggest using a proper DAW like Reaper rather than an audio editor like Audacity.

 

[Dan33185]

Just take the analogue outputs from the mixer to inputs 3 and 4 on the Tascam

Only those 2? Or use all 4 channels? So, for example, right now I use the top right "Main Out" for recording her live shows, and that goes to my Tascam using XLR cables. What would I plug in to 3/4 on the Tascam?

 

[Chili]

If you're not against spending some money, then look at an interface that has 4 mic inputs.

For a more intimate guitar sound, record it in a mid-side configuration. One mic would need to be a cardioid (your C2) and the other a figure-8 like a behringer B2. Then there are some things you have to do in the mix so you need a real DAW app like jamesperret suggested. Google "mid-side for acoustic guitar"

Then you would need a vocal mic and you can add a room mic for ambience (if the room sounds good). After that, it's up to the mix.

 

[ecc83]

That Flamma mixer seems an odd beast? No pan controls and being an, ahem! "Budget" USB mixer I am betting it records 16 bits only and may suffer noise problems as a result.
And, have I missed something in this talk of 4 channels? "Guitar and vocals" and a pair of C2s* so why 4 chans? In any case I would say "K I S Sir" and just concentrate on getting a nice guitar/voice balance (you will never get decent separation) Just setting the two mics up as a stereo pair a couple of mtrs away might give very decent results...MUCH depends upon the room and liberal use of duvets and other sound absorbing materials will be needed (as ever, look for back articles at www.soundonsound.com).

Another vote here for Reaper but, if Dan you are comfortable with Audacity at the moment there is no reason you cannot record basic tracks with it, export as .wav and then they can be inserted into Reaper at a later date for further processing if required.

*Yes, very cheap SDCs. QC is not of the highest, son and I have had two sets and one mic was noisy, blipping at neg 35dBFS but he uses a pair to record classical guitar and we think the results are pretty good. Maybe however NOT the best vocal mic? Definitely will need a pop/spit gag. What does the lady use on stage?

Dave.

 

[Dan33185]

Regarding the Flamma...this is what I get when recording direct from it during concerts:



It's not bad, I've been happy with it for concert recordings, but I'd love to get a little bit extra for something like a studio recording. My main desire is to get better sound of the guitar, and that's why I think recording the guitar multiple ways (through the mixer, with a mic) is my best bet, I can always mix and match. I am definitely comfortable with Audacity, but not opposed to learning new software, I am always up for a new challenge, especially if it will produce better results.

 

[ecc83]

I have listened to a couple of tracks (MOTU M4 Tannoy 5A in a pretty dead living room) Now I very rarely comment on people's recordings because my hearing is very poor but I have to say I find very little wrong with those songs? If I had to be picky I would say the sound is a bit 'in yer face' and needs 'polish'?

That could be the very cheap mics or a particularly unkind room. The guitar especially was rather bright and if you wanted better separation from voice you could try one of those clamp on mic systems. I was looking at them just today. They start at about £40 then the sky is the limit.

Vocals? a touch of compression and if recorded in a deader acoustic some tastefully applied reverb? But I am NO mix engineer! These effects are available in Reaper and since that can handle third party plugins that opens a world of sound 'management' up to you.

To sum up I think you are doing about as well as the equipment, especially the mics will allow. FAR better men than I can now suggest the next best step up. I would also love to hear the results from a simple stereo pair a couple of mtrs back in the room and quite high up

Dave

 

[Dan33185]

First, thank you for the compliment. Second, I agree, for live recording I am pleased with them, and I am hoping in a isolated room it will sound even better. I have done a little more searching and came across a Tascam DR-70, so a step up from the 60D, and will likely be buying that. I like it because it has 4 XLR inputs, so I can easily record from the mixer like I do now, plus I can add 2 external mics, one for guitar (1.5-2 feet away?) and one for room ambiance if desired. An added bonus, recording it all on one recorder as opposed to a laptop + Tascam will make it much easier work in post as it will all be lined up already. The only question now is which mics? I've been leaning towards the Behringer C-2's or Samson CO2's, but am open to any suggestions in the under ~150 price range.

 

[ecc83]

First, thank you for the compliment. Second, I agree, for live recording I am pleased with them, and I am hoping in a isolated room it will sound even better. I have done a little more searching and came across a Tascam DR-70, so a step up from the 60D, and will likely be buying that. I like it because it has 4 XLR inputs, so I can easily record from the mixer like I do now, plus I can add 2 external mics, one for guitar (1.5-2 feet away?) and one for room ambiance if desired. An added bonus, recording it all on one recorder as opposed to a laptop + Tascam will make it much easier work in post as it will all be lined up already. The only question now is which mics? I've been leaning towards the Behringer C-2's or Samson CO2's, but am open to any suggestions in the under ~150 price range.

Mics are to a degree personal and subjective. I have had two sets of the C2s and one has gone very noisy but then they ARE very cheap! They also have a high pass filter, 10dB pad switch. This is a complication and a possible source of unreliability you don't need, not recording snares! My son is recording classical guitar so DEFFO needs no pads.
I too am looking for suggestions for an affordable pair of SDCs, under £200 if possible.

You have about reached the limit of my knowledge Dan. I am an electronics tech' and can help in that area but hearing problems and lack of the vast experience of others here mean I hand the baton to them.

Last words (on non-electronics) DO look at Reaper and investigate room treatment...Duvets and other swaddlin'.

Dave.

 

[jamesperrett]

Only those 2? Or use all 4 channels? So, for example, right now I use the top right "Main Out" for recording her live shows, and that goes to my Tascam using XLR cables. What would I plug in to 3/4 on the Tascam?

Assuming you have the Mk1 version of the DR60D, you take the outputs from the Flamma mixer and plug them into the 3.5mm TRS socket for channels 3 and 4 on the Tascam. You will need a 2 x TS jack to 3.5mm TRS cable but these are fairly common. You can then use the mic inputs on channels 1 and 2 on the Tascam for extra mics.

There's absolutely no need to spend any money on another recorder.

 

[Dan33185]

Assuming you have the Mk1 version of the DR60D, you take the outputs from the Flamma mixer and plug them into the 3.5mm TRS socket for channels 3 and 4 on the Tascam. You will need a 2 x TS jack to 3.5mm TRS cable but these are fairly common. You can then use the mic inputs on channels 1 and 2 on the Tascam for extra mics.

There's absolutely no need to spend any money on another recorder.

I did end up buying the DR70, along with some other equipment I've been looking at for live concert recording, which will also work for my purposes here. I think I've got a pretty good idea of what I want to do, plug the mic and guitar directly to my DR70, and add a mic (LyxPro SDPC-2) for the guitar. I did have one question, probably stupid, but let's say I have the mic going to the 1 input and the guitar to the 2 input, will they record in mono then? Or would it still be stereo?