EU agrees to impose common USB-C charger
European Union lawmakers have agreed to make USB-C a common charger for all phones and electronic devices sold in the EU from 2024.
"You know it makes sense" Apple, naturally are not happy.
Dave.
chargers
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"You know it makes sense" Apple, naturally are not happy.
Dave.
rob aylestone
Moderator
We're not going to worry then - the EU can do what they like, including making design decisions for foreign companies, it seems!
keith.rogers
Well-known member
It only makes sense if you believe controlling every aspect of your or your company's life is within your right. IT'S A CABLE FFS. I quite easily and happily have been packing multiple cables with me for quite a long time, and even my poor kids have been able to manage their lives without falling into despair, even though they have devices requiring multiple kinds of connectors.
Are 100% of (non-Apple) mobile phones already USB-C compliant?
I sure hope they are going to make Amazon convert all of their Kindle readers, Alexas and whatever to USB-C charging, too.
And, wait, you're not in the EU anymore, anyway. Isn't this the sort of thing that made Brexit so popular?
Really, I'm not some no-government libertarian/anarchist. I like standards. I like safety nets. But, imposing a cost on a company's way of doing business that they have been doing for quite some time now is overreach.
Are 100% of (non-Apple) mobile phones already USB-C compliant?
I sure hope they are going to make Amazon convert all of their Kindle readers, Alexas and whatever to USB-C charging, too.
And, wait, you're not in the EU anymore, anyway. Isn't this the sort of thing that made Brexit so popular?
Really, I'm not some no-government libertarian/anarchist. I like standards. I like safety nets. But, imposing a cost on a company's way of doing business that they have been doing for quite some time now is overreach.
The EU green agenda. Ban the internal combustion engine by 2035, now phone chargers but one. They have many plans for other restrictions and bans. None of them good news for normal people. It just makes their lives, more complicated, more expensive and more problematic.
Well! I AM surprised at you two! Have you read the full details of the link? The main thrust of the legislation is to reduce electronic waste.
Then, there can be no man Jack/Jill here older then 30 that does not either have a dozen redundant phone chargers with 7 different connectors or who has binned same.
"Imposing a cost on a company" FFS! It is THEY that were rooking us. You HAD to buy their charger because a Motorola or a Nokia did not fit.
One snag that I thought of was guitar pedals that use a battery switch on the co ax power socket. However, a moments thought and I came up with a USB C to co ax adapter. I dare say such a thing exists already and costs peanuts.
We simply cannot go on plundering and shitting up the planet for baubles that no one really needs. We have to mine that 57M tons of waste.
Make that three!
Dave.
Then, there can be no man Jack/Jill here older then 30 that does not either have a dozen redundant phone chargers with 7 different connectors or who has binned same.
"Imposing a cost on a company" FFS! It is THEY that were rooking us. You HAD to buy their charger because a Motorola or a Nokia did not fit.
One snag that I thought of was guitar pedals that use a battery switch on the co ax power socket. However, a moments thought and I came up with a USB C to co ax adapter. I dare say such a thing exists already and costs peanuts.
We simply cannot go on plundering and shitting up the planet for baubles that no one really needs. We have to mine that 57M tons of waste.
Make that three!
Dave.
I suspect good sir that you do not take New Scientist nor watch "Vintage Voltage". I would also not be surprised that you think Covid vaccination is a plot?
Dave.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
Dave, I am 100% behind reducing waste and saving the planet, but I don't think these chargers are in the 80% part of the proglem. In fact, I probably have the original charger from my iPhone 3G and have not had to buy a spare in a long time, if ever. I do have a collection of various USB chargers with 3 different mini ends, however, so if I were hedging bets, I would have some money on the "USB-C won't be the last" horse as well.
And, there's lots of metal in those cables and stuff. If we're forcing people and companies to do things, make them recycle 80% of what they produce. (Our local recycling pickup does include electrical wiring, and I make full use of that as I'm jettisoning old guitar cables and such.)
p.s. I would not be surprised if Apple simply does away with the port. The new models have wireless charging (USB-C 3.1 power connected!), and they don't include a charger or wired earbuds anymore. So, I expect they'll just plug the hole in the EU and say buy AirPods (or your choice of BT buds) and use a wireless charger.
Pinky
and The Brain...
This I believe has been a known plan for Apple's next products.
Your iPhone 3G charger has been obsolete for almost all the iPhone products since. That's been a known issue with Apple for a decade now - changing things just enough in the name of 'advancement' to force purchasing of new accessories (planned obsolescence). They figured out along the way they could do it, and their well kept average customer can afford it.
This regulation ultimately does benefit the consumer, since it will allow third party products to be easily manufactured for the Apple devices. USB-C is a standard, so when Apple uses that port it forces them to follow technical guidelines that allows others to manufacturer goods based on those same guidelines. Apple legitimately sees this as a threat, as they make A LOT of money on overpriced and closely controlled accessories (it's very difficult and expensive to get Apple certification). So long as manufactures keep pitting consumer versus consumer by shaping the dialogue in terms of (THEIR, Apple's) 'freedom' and 'rights', they'll continue to keep making these profits on our backs.
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Pinky has given one good reason, stopping us getting ripped off. Maybe some here are to young to know this but when mobile phones first became popular, i.e. small, low power devices, each maker 'invented' a unique power connector. They did not even work across models. I have a Nokia 201 that uses a tiny, ~1mm coax plug I cannot source. My wife's Nokia 301 uses a micro USB connector. My Fuji A180 camera uses a tiny D shaped port (for data) but there is easily enough space for USB C. Have to buy THEIR cable see?
Modern DC-DC converters are cheap and so we only need a few distinct voltages from PSUs. I suggest 5 V and 12V. Bigger more powerful stuff can be 24V. The DEVICE should be made tolerant of the supply not the other way around.
Electric cars do not "pollute". Yes they need to be charged from the mains supply but even coal fired power stations are vastly more efficient than an ICE. In UK some 60% of our electricity comes from zero Carbon sources, mainly wind with some solar and nuclear. UK is aiming to be Carbon zero in a decade or so (though the Putin abomination might cause coal to be used temporarily rather more for a time)
We HAVE to have rules and standards and we owe it to our children and their children to not fuck up this world any more than we have already. I live in the country that spawned the industrial revolution and that made a few people very very rich but killed thousands and put millions in effectively slave poverty. Some body has to stand up and say "stop!"
Dave.
Modern DC-DC converters are cheap and so we only need a few distinct voltages from PSUs. I suggest 5 V and 12V. Bigger more powerful stuff can be 24V. The DEVICE should be made tolerant of the supply not the other way around.
Electric cars do not "pollute". Yes they need to be charged from the mains supply but even coal fired power stations are vastly more efficient than an ICE. In UK some 60% of our electricity comes from zero Carbon sources, mainly wind with some solar and nuclear. UK is aiming to be Carbon zero in a decade or so (though the Putin abomination might cause coal to be used temporarily rather more for a time)
We HAVE to have rules and standards and we owe it to our children and their children to not fuck up this world any more than we have already. I live in the country that spawned the industrial revolution and that made a few people very very rich but killed thousands and put millions in effectively slave poverty. Some body has to stand up and say "stop!"
Dave.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
Dave, the move to "smart" chargers started because customers demanded thinner and lighter devices. Oh, and they have to last forever on battery power. So, anything that did not contribute to that design requirement is left off, and that includes power regulation during charging.
Yeah, I probably over-exaggerated the 3G phone thing, but past that, I have not had a problem that I know of. Well, the change to removing the earbud jack was a little annoying, but back then you did get new earbuds with your new phone. I don't get a new one but about ever 4 years, so I think I've had the 3G, a 5 or 6, an X and now a 13 - bought ahead of schedule because I wanted a better camera for an upcoming trip. (Call me "well kept" if it pleases you.)
I take 100% of my electronics either to a big-box store that says they recycle it or the municipal recycling place. I don't have any shame about what I do or my product preferences. I keep stuff forever mostly. And, I'll say again, I think this is like spitting in the ocean, but, hey, you gotta start somewhere.
Really, this sounds like a win-win for everyone. Feel good. The planet is better by a huge amount and Apple gets smacked around because so many folks love to hate them.
Yeah, I probably over-exaggerated the 3G phone thing, but past that, I have not had a problem that I know of. Well, the change to removing the earbud jack was a little annoying, but back then you did get new earbuds with your new phone. I don't get a new one but about ever 4 years, so I think I've had the 3G, a 5 or 6, an X and now a 13 - bought ahead of schedule because I wanted a better camera for an upcoming trip. (Call me "well kept" if it pleases you.)
I take 100% of my electronics either to a big-box store that says they recycle it or the municipal recycling place. I don't have any shame about what I do or my product preferences. I keep stuff forever mostly. And, I'll say again, I think this is like spitting in the ocean, but, hey, you gotta start somewhere.
Really, this sounds like a win-win for everyone. Feel good. The planet is better by a huge amount and Apple gets smacked around because so many folks love to hate them.
"Dave, the move to "smart" chargers started because customers demanded thinner and lighter devices. Oh, and they have to last forever on battery power. So, anything that did not contribute to that design requirement is left off, and that includes power regulation during charging."
Hmm, I read you Keith but I wonder if the demand really was all that consumer led? I am reminded of a line from Jurassic Park...
"Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we should".
Again, reading the full text, laptops and other devices requiring higher power have a stay of execution. It is the millions of sub 10W devices tide they are trying to stem.
The EU had banned very low VA AC-AC rats years before for the same reasons and because peeps leave them plugged in and they consume almost as much power unloaded as loaded. I have a big lump powering a small mixer but I have fitted an inline SP switch.
Dave.
Hmm, I read you Keith but I wonder if the demand really was all that consumer led? I am reminded of a line from Jurassic Park...
"Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we should".
Again, reading the full text, laptops and other devices requiring higher power have a stay of execution. It is the millions of sub 10W devices tide they are trying to stem.
The EU had banned very low VA AC-AC rats years before for the same reasons and because peeps leave them plugged in and they consume almost as much power unloaded as loaded. I have a big lump powering a small mixer but I have fitted an inline SP switch.
Dave.
The chargers I misunderstood and agree one charger fits all is a good idea.
Electric cars do not pollute. Well Dave the very manufacture of a new vehicle 'forced' on you before the life of your old one has expired, is in itself very polluting. It is said you need to travel 70,000 miles before you offset the carbon emissions of manufacture. Lithium which is the batteries, is massively polluting and energy hungry to extract from the ground and process into batteries. The pollution and industrial waste is huge. Recycling of lithium batteries is as yet, expensive, problematic, energy hungry and because of this, not entertained. So off to the dumps they go. Lithium batteries will need changing after 5-7 years, so will last nowhere near as much as a car engine. Electric cars are heavy. Because they are heavy, they eat tyres. Plastic pollution is the biggest source of pollution on the planet and longer lasting than most others. Micro plastic does as yet, have no remedies and we do yet know its health effects.
Fuel. The amount of fuel being replaced with electricity requires many more power stations or generating sources to be manufactured and operated. This alone is going to cause huge amounts of extra co2 to be produced just in the construction as well as in operation.
co2 can be recovered and offset if thats what scares you. Planting zillions of trees would do this. If those in charge really wanted to stop co2 production tomorrow, they would stop the source of it. The source of co2 production is people being born. People being born are consumers, so needed. So lets blame everything else including cows and the like. Cows only exist because we eat them. But it is easier to blame a farmer with a cow than to address the real problem which may affect the elites financial portfolio.
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You are both wrong and "cherry picking" Ed. No one in EU at least is being "forced" to replace their ICE car with an EV. What IS happening is that ICE powered cars will be phased out (2040?) You and I will be able to drive our gas guzzler so long as you can keep it running. I have a 2008 Megane 1600. I would LOVE an EV but cannot afford one but the S/H market is growing so maybe I shall have one before I pop clogs? (76.5) I get all my electricity from Octopus Energy and that is 100% sustainable juice.
The National Grid have been quizzed about supply and they are confident that we can meet the demand of EVs...FORK! Most cars actually move for less than 5% of the time and plans are already afoot to hook up millions of peoples vehicles as a giant 'battery' thus smoothing out peak demand. CO2 producing power is going down year on year here and we use almost no coal anymore.
Covid has shown us that the world CAN get by without millions zooming about every fekkin day to and from work or from continent to continent. We must try to keep that CO2 saving.
On the wider point of 'compulsion'. Anyone with a smattering of knowledge of industrial practice since our IRev would hve to be blind, d,d and 'king stupid not to see that "people will do FA" unless forced by legislation. The history or the dreadful treatment of all kinds os working men, women AND children was not changed by enlightened employers (except in a VERY few cases) no, they had to be forced to treat people decently and we still have a long way to go in that area, even in both our 'civilized' countries.
That logic now applies to the whole world.
Oh and the 'population problem' is a red fish. It is US in the 'civilized' countries that produce by FAR the most pollution and CO2. All research has shown that once people get a decent standard of life, sanitation, good food, social services...EDUCATION FFS! They have vastly fewer children. Yes, many developing countries have polluting industries but the people are making most of the ***t for US and getting next to FA for doing it.
Dave.
The National Grid have been quizzed about supply and they are confident that we can meet the demand of EVs...FORK! Most cars actually move for less than 5% of the time and plans are already afoot to hook up millions of peoples vehicles as a giant 'battery' thus smoothing out peak demand. CO2 producing power is going down year on year here and we use almost no coal anymore.
Covid has shown us that the world CAN get by without millions zooming about every fekkin day to and from work or from continent to continent. We must try to keep that CO2 saving.
On the wider point of 'compulsion'. Anyone with a smattering of knowledge of industrial practice since our IRev would hve to be blind, d,d and 'king stupid not to see that "people will do FA" unless forced by legislation. The history or the dreadful treatment of all kinds os working men, women AND children was not changed by enlightened employers (except in a VERY few cases) no, they had to be forced to treat people decently and we still have a long way to go in that area, even in both our 'civilized' countries.
That logic now applies to the whole world.
Oh and the 'population problem' is a red fish. It is US in the 'civilized' countries that produce by FAR the most pollution and CO2. All research has shown that once people get a decent standard of life, sanitation, good food, social services...EDUCATION FFS! They have vastly fewer children. Yes, many developing countries have polluting industries but the people are making most of the ***t for US and getting next to FA for doing it.
Dave.
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Whatever I can hardly read it.
There is and never has been an issue so troubled with false accounting, untruths, conspiracy theory and propaganda as the problems with climate and pollution. Even very well respected scientists have had to reconsider some statements because new and better evidence has caused a non-intuitive shift in the facts. I get my facts from New Scientist and BBC documentaries. It is a VERY complex issue.
What is not complex however is what to do about the 'population explosion'* The answer is basically nothing. If anyone has an ethical solution I would like to hear it. China tried now they have a skewed gender situation.
So, everyone in India, Africa and China will want a car and a fridge? Ok, they can have them but lets get them bogs and clean water first. The cars etc can be solar or wind powered.
The fact is, the vast majority of the people of earth have FA or next to FA. Many have enough or a bit more. A tiny, tiny few have so much one's head spins. Those in the last two brackets will not give up their comfy lifestyle easily so I fear deeply for the future.
Dave.