Changing song keys for diversity?

[cordura21]

Do you guys change keys of songs in a cd, so succesive songs don't sound the same? Do you think that not doing so will make the cd more monotonous? Do seasoned artists do this?

I couldn't decide where to post this, as in a way it's a song writing issue but I guess it also relates to "artistic mastering", in a way.

Andrés

 

[DCMaguire]

The simple answer is -- yes.

When programming a full length disk, it is important to do just that -- program it. "How" you program it is up to you, but some thought should be put into the order of tracks with regard to key, tempo, lyrical content, etc.

DCM

 

[cordura21]

I was wondering if composition is done on purpose at different keys, instead of ordering at different keys after the songs are already done.

 

[grinder]

I was wondering if composition is done on purpose at different keys, instead of ordering at different keys after the songs are already done.

Songs are usually written in a key that fits the mood of the song and the singers vocal range.

 

[distortedrumble]

grinder is right. using different keys definitely helps the flow of the cd instead of sticking with A, E and G. throw some D, C# and to think outside the box try using A7 and Dm. the only problem is finding a singer that can handle all the ranges.

 

[mikeh]

grinder is correct, songs are normally recorded in a key that works for the singer. Often a song may be writen/composed in one key but transposed to accomodate the range of a singer.

Many times the instrument a song is written on effects the key (guitar often lends itself to E, A, G, etc whereas keyboards often lend themselfs more to flatted keys).

Regarding placment order, if possible avoid too many songs in a row in the same key. Natrually, you want the order to create song flow. Many times the CD will start uptempo build to some faster tunes maybe add a slower tune and then build again.

I've read about artists/producers who do actually use song keys to create additional build. As an example the first song is in G and the next song is in B, creating a build.

 

[cordura21]

thanks for the tips. I guess maybe there's some people doing pitch shifting to achieve diversity ( I remember reading that the Beach Boys changed speeds to sound more juvenile).

 

[The Green Hornet]

Ola Cordura de Corithian Leather:

If you have ever caught any Muppets' shows, frequently Kermit would say, "Modulate, modulate," while the gang was doing a song.

Modulation of keys increases the dynamics of a production. There are relative keys, like C and Eb, and frequently modulations are made from relative keys; however, very often, like Bobby Darrins' "Mack the Knife," modulations are made in steps of half tones or whole steps. It's really in the arranger's mind and the goals and likes of the talent. But, no doubt, modulation of keys is a key to the success and dynamics of a song, vocal or instrumental.

Salute` & Happy Thanksgiving.

Green Hornet

 

[jameslucas]

I don't necessarily agree, I have spent years of my life learning to write songs and the one thing that I felt like helped my jump from shitty songs that sound kinda okay to good tunes was the truth. I have a high voice so I play in C and capo often at the 4-6 fret but if a song is a good song, and a true expression, it doesn't matter if you're entire record is one chord long. What I'm trying to say is that you should vocus on the song, that is how you will get what you want, you can't control external procedures as much as many of us try and would like, if you want the song to be good, let it find its place and don't worry about the key. Everyone from lightnin' hopkins to ron sexsmith have been using C F Am and G, and creating amazing tunes that range from one end of human emotion to the next.

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Luc:

48 bars of Fmajor might sell if the words appeal to some audience.

Modulation increases variety -- most non-musicians who buy songs are not savvy to key changes but, if their ears like it, it will sell with or without modulation.

I guess production and emotions are tied together. I remember getting the music to HAIR way back and THE WIZ later on. Modulation is found on many tracks. Like, if the orchestra is doing a promo lead-in for a singer, chances are the orchestra will do it in one or two keys and then modulate to the singer's pipes.

I dig listening to blues by anyone -- not too many changes involved in doing the blues via BB King; but I still like having the tool of modulation available if it fits my ideas or the ideas of an audience I'm looking for.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Green Hornet

 

[con_ritmo]

As a violinist, I'd like to share my thoughts on the subject...

Its all too common for a singer to change key because it doesn't fit their vocal range. It's all too easy for a guitarist to capo their guitar to reflect...

What gets lost is that switching keys changes the mood...however slight (or large). By modulating keys on a whim you alter the mood of the piece.

This is a very easy thing to hear on string instruments...because the strings produce different resonances. D major simply rings on a violin because the tonic (d), dominant (a), and subdominant (g) are all open strings...so you'll get a lot of sympathetic vibrations playing through the piece.

Change the key to Db major and suddenly the tonic, dominant, and subdominant of the scale is not on an open string. You'll get a wholly different sound...

Its plainly obvious (and not really a good thing) when you switch a key because of a singer. "Ohh, this is a singer's key..."

Now then, the most powerful thing you could do with scales is to change their type. For example, using a MINOR scale instead of a MAJOR scale.

Another thing is to come up with a good chord progression. You can change keys all you want, but if you are using similar chord progressions within them...the songs will still sound the same.
Try to deviate from just using I, IV, V...and/or add some tasteful color chords.

Finally pay attention to your rhythmic meter, rhythms, and tempos...and use them to suit your work.


Bottom line:

1. Think minor, major, (pentatonic, blues, etc.etc.) scales...
2. Think chord progressions...
3. What key you ultimately choose will affect the color of sound you will get. d major is not db major is not g major, etc.etc.
4. Don't forget about the timing (meter/rhythms) of the music...

 

[Chrisjob]

The key of A7?

 

[con_ritmo]

throw some D, C# and to think outside the box try using A7 and Dm

The elusive key of A7 doesn't stray far from the usage of C# major. Yipes. just kidding of course...

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo:

Is A7 a key or a chord?

If you can find the tune in a fake book, "WHAT'S NEW." Old standard ballad, you will note the song's bridge plays the same melody as the beginning.

When it was written, the author didn't know quite what to do for a bridge/release; so a friend of his told him the first part [8 bars I think] was so cool that he should modulate and play the same thing. That is what he did. Just one neat example of modulation.

Green Hornet

 

[SKM]

A7 is a chord... perhaps he was refering to A Mixolydian?

 

[PowerCouple]

Hola Cordura!

We are finishing our first full lenght CD and we tried to tie the songs together, like...

our first song starts in B and ends in E...
our second song starts in E and ends in A..the 3rd starts in Am and ends in D... the following starts in G...

so they all kinda flow together without sounding all-the-same...they fit...somehow...we'll see...

Peace...

PS: Como esta la movida musical por alla? Yo me vine a San Francisco desde Buenos Aires hace ya casi 2 años...

PC

 

[volltreffer]

As a violinist, I'd like to share my thoughts on the subject...

(...)

Its plainly obvious (and not really a good thing) when you switch a key because of a singer. "Ohh, this is a singer's key..."

Though you may be rite from the musical point of view, it simply can be necessary to change a key because of the singer. Assuming you have a finished song, neither of your hints would really apply... So what would you do? Get another singer?

The stuff you describe may BTW be the same problem for the singer. Even if he can make it to get the song well done in YOUR tune, he/she might have a much better voice in a totally different key. And: most often it's the voice that sells (maybe you'll have to see that metaphorical...) and not the violin and/or guitar...

A last one: the prob you describe already was the reason why I re-tuned my guitar/bass in a different way. It simply sounded better then...

aXel