Cha La Head Cha La - Glam rock ft. VHS and Greg_L

VomitHatSteve

VomitHatSteve

Hat STYLE. Not contents.
Alright! On the mixing stage of a big-ol glam album. First song we're working on is a cover of the Japanese Dragonball Z theme song

Cha La Head Cha La | Lipstick

As you can see, we're already up to 7 mix iterations, so I'd love to have you be brutal about it!

Also, Hey Greg! Remember those drums we had you record like... a year and a half a go? :D
 
I think the drums need to come up, especially the kick. The drums seem really separate from the bass and guitar.
 
More like they aren't related. The kick and bass aren't working together. The blend just isnt right, probably because the kick, or the drums in general, aren't loud enough.

It isn't a reverb thing, the bass just isn't being supported by the drums.
 
Farview said:
I think the drums need to come up, especially the kick. The drums seem really separate from the bass and guitar.
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Yeah I agree. It's like the whole thing is out of sync. Like the tracks don't line up. The music tracks are out of time with the drums. The snare treatment seems appropriate for the style, but the kick and toms are MIA. Needs a lot more drums...and I don't know what to tell you about the timing besides heavy heavy editing or retracking.
 
Being a child of the Glam era - I'd expect much more of a pumping rhythm section.
Everything sounds a little dislocated.
The vocals seem, all of them and their slightly Rundgren tones, to be floating around a bass guitar with a loud guitar over to the side and a snare drum with a kit in the next room.
 
Thanks for the feedback, everyone! Mix 8 is up
Cha La Head Cha La | Lipstick

Mostly, I cranked the drums way up (or rather, I cranked everything else way down). The snare is also a little lighter relative to the rest of the kit.

I didn't adjust any timing because a. I don't have time for editing today and b. I'm not really hearing timing issues, actually. (other than that the guitar parts aren't identical, but that comes from having too many players)
 
I listened to mix #8. I thought the tone on everything is very nice.

Only some small nits, mostly on levels.. I thought the kick was a bit too loud. It's dominating the bass. I'd nudge the kick down and nudge the bass up. I think the vocal, at least in spots, was a bit soft.

The vocal performance is decent. But I'd like a little more energy in it. It's like the singer was just trying to make it through a take and stay on pitch. But he didn't really knock it out. Same comment goes for the backing vocals.
 
TripleM said:
I listened to mix #8. I thought the tone on everything is very nice.
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Great! Thanks!

I thought the kick was a bit too loud. It's dominating the bass. I'd nudge the kick down and nudge the bass up.
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Ha ha! I'm overcompensating!

I think the vocal, at least in spots, was a bit soft.
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Seems likely. Any specific spots that stood out?

It's like the singer was just trying to make it through a take and stay on pitch.
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I'm not gonna say that's exactly what happened... but that is in fact exactly what happened! :D
 
That is better. You don't notice the timing errors as much, since the drums are more upfront.

Turn off everything except the drums and bass. Get them to work together and support each other. Once they make your toe tap, then bring up the guitars to fill out the stereo field. Then bring in the vocals.

The tones are good on everything, it really is just levels and some wacky timing things. (the guitars sound rushed a lot of the time, the bass isn't really in the pocket)
 
Farview said:
Turn off everything except the drums and bass. Get them to work together and support each other. Once they make your toe tap, then bring up the guitars to fill out the stereo field. Then bring in the vocals.
Click to expand...
That's usually how I work (except with vocals before guitar), I have trouble not losing bass and drums as I bring stuff in tho (especially as I probably tend to undervalue bass and every drum except kick and snare)
 
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VomitHatSteve said:
Thanks for the feedback, everyone! Mix 8 is up
Cha La Head Cha La | Lipstick

Mostly, I cranked the drums way up (or rather, I cranked everything else way down). The snare is also a little lighter relative to the rest of the kit.

I didn't adjust any timing because a. I don't have time for editing today and b. I'm not really hearing timing issues, actually. (other than that the guitar parts aren't identical, but that comes from having too many players)
Click to expand...

The drums are better. The overheads...I don't know what's going on there but they sound thin and wispy. I'm okay with the drum levels. Usually when you think they're too loud is when they're just about right.

Most of the instrumentation seems very rushed. That's the timing problem. The bass is ahead of the beat and the guitars almost seem like they were tracked with no regard to the rest of the track.
 
TripleM said:
The vocal performance is decent. But I'd like a little more energy in it. It's like the singer was just trying to make it through a take and stay on pitch. But he didn't really knock it out. Same comment goes for the backing vocals.
Click to expand...

To my ears...the vocals seem like they are constantly trying to find the groove...they just don't sound comfortable...as though it was a first pass of a song you didn't know...hate to say it, kinda karaoke...but then, that might be the right vibe for this song considering its Japanese origin.
 
Greg_L said:
Most of the instrumentation seems very rushed. That's the timing problem. The bass is ahead of the beat and the guitars almost seem like they were tracked with no regard to the rest of the track.
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And maybe that's what's making the vocals also seem like they can't find the groove...
 
I hear the timing issues other are mentioning. I do think you'll want to sort those out to be truly happy with the song. Apart from that, something that jumps out for me is that the lead vocal doesn't sit comfortably in the mix. There are places where it is too low or being masked by other instruments (guitars chiefly). Elsewhere it sounds way out front.
 
The timing issues remind me of situations where everyone plays to the click, without hearing the other parts. (as in, just the click) I've put a few records like that together, and it will sometimes sound like this. Everyone is feeling the time a little differently, so it just isn't together.
 
Ok. Mix 9: Cha La Head Cha La | Lipstick
Greg_L said:
The drums are better. The overheads...I don't know what's going on there but they sound thin and wispy. I'm okay with the drum levels. Usually when you think they're too loud is when they're just about right.
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Yeah. The OHs are kinda thin. I don't know how or if I'll address that. I'm not much of a cymbals guy myself. When the mix starts getting busy, they're the first thing I tend to scale back to make room.

greg_l said:
Most of the instrumentation seems very rushed. That's the timing problem. The bass is ahead of the beat and the guitars almost seem like they were tracked with no regard to the rest of the track.
Click to expand...
Farview said:
The timing issues remind me of situations where everyone plays to the click, without hearing the other parts. (as in, just the click) I've put a few records like that together, and it will sometimes sound like this. Everyone is feeling the time a little differently, so it just isn't together.
Click to expand...
Robus said:
I hear the timing issues other are mentioning. I do think you'll want to sort those out to be truly happy with the song.
Click to expand...
I edited the bass a little bit to keep it on beat better. It's probably not super-tenable to edit the guitars tho. (They're only really lose time on the 8th notes during the verses/intro, so it's not the end of the world)

miroslav said:
To my ears...the vocals seem like they are constantly trying to find the groove...they just don't sound comfortable...as though it was a first pass of a song you didn't know...hate to say it, kinda karaoke...but then, that might be the right vibe for this song considering its Japanese origin.
Click to expand...
miroslav said:
And maybe that's what's making the vocals also seem like they can't find the groove...
Click to expand...
robus said:
Apart from that, something that jumps out for me is that the lead vocal doesn't sit comfortably in the mix. There are places where it is too low or being masked by other instruments (guitars chiefly). Elsewhere it sounds way out front.
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I put some side-chain compression on the guitars; hopefully, that helps the vocals sit better


Thanks all.
 
I have to echo pretty much everything that's been said so far. As a kid in the 70s I was majorly into glam rock and the style cues of that genre are very distinctive; big, dry, fat, pumping drums, sometimes with a slight slapback delay. Tight, solid rhythm guitar and bass parts. Rock solid harmonies layered right into the falsetto ranges (often vari-speeded to get the extreme high notes, back in the day). Tight, short room and plate reverbs (if any). Single slapback delays were more common.
 
The intro sounds brilliant. The bass tone is nice. Sounds fairly solid with the drums.
Gotta say, the timing issues still show up at times on mix 9.
The claps sound muffled and small.
The main line (Cha La Head...) vocals (as was mentioned) could use a few more layers (up) of backup. That line seems done with passion and presence and pushes really well. But it's a bit loud at that line. More BG, less primary might be better... If you could get the rest of the vocals at the Cha La level (performance not volume) it would be amazing.
The leads sound just a touch flat and could use some movement (a few more notes per beat on a few beats wouldn't hurt). I'd mention the tone, but they sounded great on the monitors, just not in the cans.
Not sure if it's just my ears. Didn't listen to other mixes, so this may be off: The drums sound pretty good, but like they're in another space. Crashes are kind of, I want to say choked, but not like they're being cut off suddenly, like they're there, but shortened in length and lacking something, maybe like they were hi-passed to aggressively. Don't know. Not good at mixing drums, so my advice is probably shite...just know what I'm hearing.
 
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